OU: Solar Beam Serperior?

[Chase]

Introduction:

Most Serperior sets are pretty straightforward. You know exactly what they want do when they see the field and it's one of the more blatantly obvious Pokemon in the metagame. Send it in safely, click Leaf Storm, get boost, proceed to overwhelm teams with the 'mon's speed and ever increasing power, until you win.

Not exactly suggested however, is running "Solar Beam" on Serperior. It's not that it isn't a move that is befitting to the Pokemon at all (as it's a high power special STAB); only that Leaf Storm is typically the better option for it's power and is a better fit on teams across the board.

However, I don't like doing things by the book - so instead of going for Giga Drain or a lousy support move - I wanted to see how well it fared wielding the power of the sun on a team that is heavily reliant on bulldozing anything in it's path.

This first draft is what I came up with.

Objectives:

• Serperior -must- use Solar Beam.
• Team must focus on wallbreaking and heavy damage output.
• Team should have a way to provide and remove hazards - the latter especially due to the choice of weather setter.

At a Glance:

Exportable Sets:

Serperior @ Expert Belt

Ability: Contrary

EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Leaf Storm

- Solar Beam

- Dragon Pulse

- Hidden Power [Fire]

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash

Ability: Arena Trap

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Earthquake

- Stone Edge

- Reversal

- Stealth Rock

Charizard @ Charizardite Y

Ability: Blaze

EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Modest Nature

- Fire Blast

- Solar Beam

- Focus Blast

- Roost

Latios (M) @ Life Orb

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

- Draco Meteor

- Psyshock

- Surf

- Defog

Bisharp @ Assault Vest

Ability: Defiant

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD

Adamant Nature

- Knock Off

- Iron Head

- Sucker Punch

- Pursuit

Scizor @ Choice Band

Ability: Technician

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD

Adamant Nature

- Bullet Punch

- U-turn

- Superpower

- Knock Off

Teambuilding Process:

Serperior is obviously the focus of the team, as the question I posed in the introduction pertains to it. From basic knowledge of why the Regal Pokemon is sitting on it's lofty perch in OverUsed, we can extrapolate that NOT running Leaf Storm and Contrary would be silly, as it would incredibly hurt it's ability to sweep teams when Drought ends otherwise. From the challenge, we know our second moveslot will go to Solar Beam to take advantage of Drought with a hardly noticeable loss in power from Leaf Storm and more dependable accuracy in a one turn move under the sun. Dragon Pulse provides Serperior with an ability to hammer various pokemon that resist it's stabs, and Hidden Power Fire gives it an ability to to take care of the Steel types not named Heatran that would be problematic if trying to dent with it's stabs or D Pulse. In the event that both it -and- Charizard Y stick around for the long haul, Serperior can keep the good times rolling with heavy damage output while running Expert Belt to boost it's non grass moves AND not not take Life Orb Damage.

Charizard-Y will be the one bringing the sunshine to the party. It's a standard wallbreaking set consisting of it's best possible STAB in Fire Blast, it's best possible coverage move in Solar Beam, which becomes click-and-use under it's self-provided sun, and Focus Blast to again deal with things like Heatran that would get a major benefit instead of a trip to the infirmary from Fire Blast and resist Solar Beam with ease. Roost rounds out the set, allowing Charizard-Y to regain health it may take from chip damage and weak attacks, as well as avoiding Sucker Punch KOs - allowing for Charizard to gain some longevity.

Dugtrio serves as the team's Stealth Rock setter, effectively "putting the runners in scoring position" for when it's teammates come in to clean up by giving it some opposing residual damage if the opponent get's switch happy - as a team that depends on Wallbreaking as opposed to setting up will greatly appreciate all the help it can get over the course of the match. Dugtrio also is the absolute best way to deal with Heatran, as a double switch or a slow-turn will ensure the Lava Dome Pokemon is done in thanks to the pesky ability Arena Trap. Stone Edge helps deal with Flying type Pokemon that trouble Serperior if need be, while Reversal is essentially a nuke button if the sash ends up mattering.

Scizor is one of the best options to use as a slow-turner because it can also give some massive damage off in doing so, thanks to the ability Technician. U-turn is also a STAB move, and with a Choice Band, anything this guy will be throwing will allow it to serve as a somewhat physical wall breaker. It's fear of burns is covered by three special attackers, one of which being unaffected at all due to it's Fire typing. Bullet Punch provides the team a very easy way of dealing with Fairy type Pokemon that specialize in Special Defense, such as annoyances Sylveon and Clefable not weilding Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Knock Off provides utility support as well as even more damage output, and Superpower takes on more Steel type Pokemon.

Latios is a critical component of this team because of it's ability to green-light Charizard-Y throughout the match by rock clearance, as well as also providing pain in Draco Meteor and Psyshock. I gave this Latios Surf to deal with Rock, Ground, and Steel types aggressively if Drought is not set - while also giving me an out should I need to save Latios from special dropping too early.

Bisharp is just a super reliable Pokemon in general, and on this team, he's playing bulky offense. Give it the AV and it's going to take most special attacking moves baring Focus Miss cleanly, while giving me another trap option in Pursuit and more utility support should Banded Scizor go down, along with more priority in Sucker Punch - which all still hits quite hard. Iron Head deals with Fairy types and is a nice secondary stab to have, as the AV limits one to only using attacking moves. Bisharp's biggest boon though is working in order to discourage Defog use and ward off things like Starmie and the Lati twins with the ability to take a special hit better than usual and usually make those Pokemon pay either way.

In Conclusion:

I just wanted to see if something was even remotely viable or not by changing Giga Drain/Support move to Solar Beam. So far I'm 3-1 with the team and plowing through the low ladder in some sort of crazy wave - but low ladder matches aren't always telling of anything much at all. I do see a couple of problems, most glaringly having three Pokemon that would not enjoy taking a Fire type attack that I actually go to the trouble of boosting for my opponent if Drought is still up - and so far I think banded STAB Bullet Punch and Sucker Punch, along with HP Fire getting a sun boost on top of whatever boosts may be on the table is somewhat balanced.

Please do not try to change the premise of the team when making suggestions. (Solar Beam Serperior, it's not too much to ask for, right?) Other than that little request, have at me!

[SJMistery]

Just saying: sun only lasts 5 turns and you are very likely to never be able to use solarbeam without loosing a pokemon to whoever x4 grass resist you definitely will give a free switch-in to wreak avoc but all in all, not like you would end using the fourth move anyway so run with it. Switching charizard back does ont reset the countdown unless the sunlight already faded on the previous turn, too, so be twice careful.

Sinergy:

You literally have no defense against Flying types in general, and many Dragon types (Charizard X, Dragonite, or even Salamence and Altaria with full health and a fire coverage move) can easily sweep the team too.

In particular, you need a Talonflame counter. With so many frail or fire-weak mons, and having 2 pokemon that cannot touch it (the two steel types, upped to 3 if Charizard looses the sun), and not a single pokemon that can take a boosted flying move and live to tell the tale, your team is just asking for a SD Acrobatics Talonflame to 6-0 it, and any other set of Talonflame will give you trouble in general.

Hazard controll:

With Dugtrio as a suicide SR user, and the fact that you carry Defog instead of Rapid Spin (awfull combination in my eyes, and even with RS a suicide rock user is bad idea as you have no ghost types and even Bisharp can be avoided with the right Defog user, namely Scald Empoleon, Wirlwind Skarmory, Trick Lati@s and physically defensive Mandibuzz). In shorts those stealth rocks will last less in the field than a candy on the hands of a child. Even Starmie can use Reflect Type to escape Bisharp or simply wait until Dugtrio dies, spin on the switch in, and predict the correct Bisharp move and escape, or just hammer Bisharp before dying, either way he already eliminated the rocks.

Speaking of Defog, Life Orb Latios without roost should not be your only source of Defog with a x4 weak mon and a Dugtrio holding a, ehem, a Foobcus Sash, with the combined recoil and residual damage easily be eliminated by the very same rocks he is supposed to remove. In fact Latios should not be a defogger at all, he is just too frail without investment and is countered by many Stealth Rock users, such as Empoleon, Tyranitar, Heatran if he gets in on the sun you freely provide him, Skarmory who can prey on that lack of recovery, etc. This role is better suited to his bulkier sister Latias, really. You even have on your own team a reliable anti-Latios pokemon around, Pursuit Bisharp, so you should know how easily it can drop out of the team.

I will respect your idea of SolarBeam despite the fact it was incredibly unreliable even when there was permanent sun, but you require:

A hippowdon instead of Dugtrio, It will not only reset the sun counter by summoning a sandstorm, it has reliable recovery, can provide Stealth Rock more repeteadly, and with either Toxic, Wirlwind or Stone Edge acts as the Talonflame and Birdspam/Dragonspam check you badly require. After all a good chunk of your team is immune to sandstorms.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge / Roar / Toxic

Stantard Set, you can run wathever fourth move you feel like using, all three work wonders on flying mons and sweepers

Latios needs Roost instead of Surf, and better yet and the name Latias, after all Charizard and Serperior are supposed to be the wallbreakers and sweepers of your team, Life Orb Latios' firepower is not required very much.

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Recover
- Hidden Power Fire / Psyshock / Surf
- Defog

Latias @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Recover
- Healing Wish / Reflect Type

Choose the one you prefer, I recommend Latias. The Healing Wish can give one of your mons a second chance, Reflect Type lets you escape Pursuit very easily.

Consider Heatran instead of Bisharp, while giving Pursuit to Scizor. He also acts as a Dragon check, especially with Dragon Pulse or HP ice, can spread burns for your pokemon to switch in more easily, stop some flying types on its tracks, and most importantly absorb the fire attacks your team draws to no end. Ancient Power is very haxy and is not recommended because of the low PP but can destroy flying types and the chance to boost the stats quickly adds up if you spam it repeteadly.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Roar / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Ice / Ancient Power

Pretty stantard, just lacking Stealth Rock which is provided by Hippowon. you can run two utility moves on Hippowdon and put Stealth Rock on the fourth slot if you want, it makes little difference.

Edited January 25, 2016 by SJMistery

[Tomas Elliot]

Leaving aside considerations on possible switch-ins, the state of the current metagame and whatnot, I think that your main issue here is time. From the moment Charizard mega evolves, you have 5 turns of sun. Switch to Serperior and 4 are left. Use Leaf Storm (without a +2 under its belt, Serperior is NOT going to deal any significant damage to any relevant threat) and 3 are left. So yeah, even assuming that Serperior can indeed switch into something (which, unless the opponent is so stupid to istantly switch a Water-type Pokemon into Charizard, is not guaranteed), that leaves you a mere 3 turns to make the most of your strategy. So yeah, while I do approve of the general idea (it is pretty close to my own "double wallbreaker" concept, after all), I am not so sure that Solar Beam on Serperior could actually bring you any consistent benefits. So yeah, as you said using that move on that Pokemon is a challenge but... I personally would consider it a failed one.

Pity, because with minor tweaks to Charizard's EVs (40 HP EVs, 216 Spe EVs and a Modest nature, so that it can afford running Flamethrower over Fire Blast) and a better coverage option over Solar Beam on Serperior, this would be a very effective team :/

[Chase]

Hey SJ,

Let me address something real fast, because I noticed a little bit of this in other RMTs and it's actually a little bit annoying for not just me but other team owners.

I'm well aware that there are other more viable ways to run Serperior - but I explicitly asked in my last sentence of the first post that the premise not be changed. You seem to disregard special pleading in several other RMTs for the sake of just "making the team better" - but it's not okay if people WANT that premise to remain. That's why they went through the trouble of asking.

I understand you only care for teams that are going to put in work on a consistent basis, but it's common courtesy to let people play the game as they wish. Especially when they ask for that right beforehand.

OR - if it's really that much of of an inhibition, at least acknowledge it with a different suggestion, like Tomas did here.

[SJMistery]

Fire Blast does not miss so frequently to sacrifice firepower and good speed tier with Modest Flamethrower.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 313-370 (91.7 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 282-333 (82.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The target is just a blank set Mew I commonly use to show the damage differences, but seriously, that 10% drop in power is very noticeable in many 2HKOs. It's better to miss sometimes than (sorry for the pun) miss the possibility to break through the opponent, especially if he is now faster than you like. Oh and, speaking of that, that speed spread gives you 290 speed stat. If outspeeding Gabite and base 47 speed pokemon with a Choice Scarf (and I am not joking, those are the only mons with a speed stat of 289) is not much of a problem for you, consider 208 speed EVs instead (gives a speed stat of 288), the ones you need to outspace +0 Jolly Gyarados (287) with that Modest nature.

Still, doing just this would make him ultra-weak to many wallbreakers like opposing Charizard Y, Tail Glow Manaphy or Choice Band Victini and is less than recommended. One thing is dismiss sweepers as a noticeable threat (a mistake in my opinion but we decided to pass over that), another, leaving yourself open to half the top tier threats.

Solar Beam in teory can work to delay the inevitable "run out of Leafstorms" problem and is good to spam on the early game when you know you won't be able to sweep the team with the Leafstorm boosts, and is precisely the ONLY thing I ignored. And anyway, not like Serperior has any other coverage move to run, you don't miss anything by running it. I just gave you a couple of tips to use it efectively. Just look on my thread of teams and you will see a myriad of strange things like Substitute Dragonite, Feint Pinsir, or HP rock Serperior. I test new things on every team, that's the fun in making the teams.

And, aren't RMT teams posted on that section supposed to be reliable competitive teams that work on a consistent basis on PvP, the Reborn League, or at least the in-game Battle Facilities?

The teams meant for casual play should go in "Team Showcase" if I remember the rules right.

Edited January 25, 2016 by SJMistery

[Chase]

This team is intended for Player-versus-player use - and unless you define "casual play" as sitting on Showdown! using Pokemon you like to use or being creative and not as the Team Showcase section of the forum understands it (I.e. Your REBORN team - hence why it's under the Reborn City subforum.) I don't really know why you're trying to patronize me.

As for your suggestion on Talonflame, that is most indeed a huge problem, and I appreciate your Hippowdon suggestion. Hippo loses a lot of momentum for me by focusing on being a more defensive Pokemon, and I actually was pretty fond of Arena Trap, but I do see your point where it comes to being a more reliable Rock setter. Resetting the sun counter is nice as well.

I intended for this team to be more "Hyper Offense" than balanced though, so losing stealth rocks isn't so much of a big deal to me. Perhaps sending me a sweeper to replace Scizor or Bisharp?

I'll take the Latias suggestion with appreciation. I was leaning toward it to begin with and went with Latios wanting a bit more offensive power.

[SJMistery]

What about using Sunglasses and Swords Dance on Bisharp instead of Assault Vest and Pursuit? Scizor can take the Latios-trapping role instead. Maybe Substitute+SD Cobalion could pull his weight but his coverage and utility are much more limited, it shouldn't be your first option.

About Hippowdon, you can also consider Tyranitar as the SR setter, combining the utility of Bisharp and Dugtrio without loosing a chance to massacre the Smogonbird and running Sand Rush Excadrill instead of Bisharp. Some friends of mine run a team with charizard+excadrill and they work wonders with them.

As I just said, being creative is not casual play (using your favourites outside of certain limits is, tough), i typically run a strange, seldom seen or just plain bizarre set sometimes. Reflect Type is my favourite move to run on Starmie and Latias, and Substitute is nearly my trademark on the main sweepers (Dragonite, Jirachi, Cobalion, Klinklang...). If you want to know I define casual play playing against AI opponents, or on randomness-based tiers like Battle Factory where strategy has next to 0 influence on the outcome of the game.

Being creative must be held with care tough, as it is a tool to archieve the second main objective of playing (the first one, obviously, is to enjoy the game): the goal of a pokemon match, at the end of the day, is to win, no matter if you play NU, OU or Challenge Cup.

After all, simulators were intended to make competitive play accessible to everyone by trivializing EV train, the obtainance of one-of-a-kind pokemon and moves, and by putting you into anonymous contact with hundreds of opponents, weren't they?

Edited January 25, 2016 by SJMistery

[NickCrash]

Well, the usage of Zard, T-Tar and Excadrill is seen so much these days, it's becoming a nuisance.

Ok Chase, I'd pinpoint the difficulty in using SolarBeam with Serperior but I believe this issue was pretty much covered. Actually the only way to deal with it and add more rounds of sun is to include a Ninetails, but that will mess up your game pretty badly. So 3 turns is all you have max, at least the first time, when nobody expects it. Then you have 2 or 1 turn to use it, which will be hard since you will come across strategies that include Protect, Substitute and Fake out quite often. So, as Tomas said, time is your main issue.

What you can do to alter this however is to use SolarBeam as a threat that you do not really need to use. Use it as a bait, to make your opponent go all defensive and try to avoid it, while you switch to one of your trappers. This will work with psychic or steel types, but not all pokemon that can damage Serperior and Zard. It will not work with setup sweepers and opposing wallbreakers that can essentially play your own game against you. (ie bait you to bring the trappers and use a Keldeo or Talonflame or even Tornadus-I).

What I suggest is to drop the trapping concept, switch Dugtrio for Hippo, and Bisharp/Scizor for Rotom-W.

They can form a more defensive core for you, while keeping momentum so you can bring the Zard/Serp core back into the game without fear of opposing attacks, since they both cannot fend off too many hits. Then use the Lati sister to remove hazards and even use H-wish if you like.

Getting out of the SolarBeam concept...

What I usually do for Sepr in HO teams is give it Glare, that can paralyze even ground pokemon, which I find quite helpful to get rid of the likes of Excadrill, Hippowdon, Landorus and Gliscor, mostly on the switch or by staying in when they expect you to switch and try to set up on your switch. This strategy also works for other setup sweepers and usually not to many will stay in on Serp when it's on the field, because, as you said, it is a cookie-clicker pokemon that focuses on setup attacks without losing momentum.

[Kamina]

It's a unique set, i'll give you that but solarbeam is not a good move on serperior. An increase of 11.111% in accuracy is not worth the slight loss of power + being forced to use it in the sun + not getting a +2 boost in special attack + making sure your opponent does not have a weather changer of their own + loss in oppertunity cost of using a better move. If you really want leaf storm to always hit you are better off simply slapping a wide lens on serperior. I don't mean to be harsh but you should probably test the team out in more than just 4 battles before you rmt it.

[Deleted User]

The teams meant for casual play should go in "Team Showcase" if I remember the rules right.

If it's involved in the Competitive Meta game, then it belongs here. "Casual" or not. Team Showcase is EXCLUSIVELY for Pokemon Reborn teams.

Pokemon Fan Club serves for in game teams of non Reborn games I suppose, but this is absolutely in the right place.

While I myself would not choose to run Solar Beam on Serperior, considering that Chase said in the original post that this is something he wants to do, you should all at least respect that when rating the team or offering suggestions for improvements.