Tomas Elliot presents: a theory on today's OU meta, with RMT

[Tomas Elliot]

YOU are supposed to teach me to play?

No, I am supposed to teach you to read. Which you are still very bad at.

But since I have no time to waste with your arrogance, your "OMG look at me I made the history of this game!" (spoiler warning: you did nothing of the sort), and your complete and utter inability to understand other people's points (or to formulate any of your own that present any fact beyond "LOL DUDE I AM SO STRONK U NOOB I HAZ SKILLZ I SO BETTER THAN U" to support them), I must once again ask you to leave.

The people who posted before you all pointed out the same problems. And with their constructive, polite and well-argumented help, I am trying to refine this project, coming up with alternative ideas and listening to their feedback on them. You will not find any praise to feed your fragile ego here, nor will you find anyone interested in the "accomplishments" you boast about. Which, even if they were true and not just the product of a fragile ego desperate for recognition, would still not be valid arguments in the debate at hand.

Therefore, your presence here is not only useless, it is indeed damaging to what was a constructive topic, and is now a ridiculous flame war because you, hungry for recognition as you are, felt that the theory it presents might delegitimize the "accomplishments" your fragile ego so desperately needs to see acknowledged, and you felt the need to reassert your self-appointed role as alpha male (or female or whatever, you can never be sure in this forum) of the competitive scene. With every further post you make, you accomplish nothing but to waste everybody's time, turning yourself into a laughingstock in the process. But if you had any reading skills, or any respect for what other people think or say, you would understand by now that this topic was never meant to discredit a playstyle compared to another, but simply to propose a point of view and the reasoning behind it. If it turned into silly flame wars full of personal attacks, you have to blame nobody but yourself.

So again, take what little dignity you have left and leave. Your next post will be reported on sight.

[Kamina]

Looking at the team from a glance, SJMistery is right in that you have no revenge killer and you should carry one. Pokes such as NP Thundurus and CM Mega Alakazam will easily tear this team apart when you have no speed control in a somewhat offensive team. Yes, you may change Charizard-Y to Mega Manectric to check Thundurus(only if you mega before it comes in), but then Hippowdon+Starmie will wall you completely, if Starmie has Reflect Type and is played well.

I am also curious as to your choice of running volt switch on mew, as opposed to u-turn, which can't be blocked (Shedinja, but that isn’t common anyway+SR checks it). I get that you are a negative attacking nature and having investment in special attack, but making sure you can always keep momentum seems more important to me than doing a little extra damage. You can also go for Baton Pass, so Pursuit doesn’t destroy Mew.

Even though this team was meant to beat Defensive/Stall cores, they seem to give your team a lot of trouble (such as Mega Sableye+Chansey+Alomomola/Gastrodon and Stallbreaking Talonflame+Starmie). To somewhat patch this up, I would drop Healing Wish on Clefable for Calm Mind, and maybe Thunder Wave for Thunderbolt if you feel like beating Skarmory/Talonflame better, but that’s optional.

To me, I feel like the weakest link in this team is Mew. If you were to change Mew, I highly recommend using Choice Scarf Latios, with Trick+Defog. Not only is it a revenge killer, it also uses Defog and carries a higher special attack stat to defeat Fighting types. Although you lose defense, the offense from Latios and high speed makes this an excellent change.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Kamina

[Tomas Elliot]

Looking at the team from a glance, SJMistery is right in that you have no revenge killer and you should carry one. Pokes such as NP Thundurus and CM Mega Alakazam will easily tear this team apart when you have no speed control in a somewhat offensive team. Yes, you may change Charizard-Y to Mega Manectric to check Thundurus(only if you mega before it comes in), but then Hippowdon+Starmie will wall you completely, if Starmie has Reflect Type and is played well.

I am also curious as to your choice of running volt switch on mew, as opposed to u-turn, which can't be blocked (Shedinja, but that isn’t common anyway+SR checks it). I get that you are a negative attacking nature and having investment in special attack, but making sure you can always keep momentum seems more important to me than doing a little extra damage. You can also go for Baton Pass, so Pursuit doesn’t destroy Mew.

Even though this team was meant to beat Defensive/Stall cores, they seem to give your team a lot of trouble (such as Mega Sableye+Chansey+Alomomola/Gastrodon and Stallbreaking Talonflame+Starmie). To somewhat patch this up, I would drop Healing Wish on Clefable for Calm Mind, and maybe Thunder Wave for Thunderbolt if you feel like beating Skarmory/Talonflame better, but that’s optional.

To me, I feel like the weakest link in this team is Mew. If you were to change Mew, I highly recommend using Choice Scarf Latios, with Trick+Defog. Not only is it a revenge killer your, it also uses Defog and carries a higher special attack stat to defeat Fighting types. Although you lose defense, the offense from Latios and high speed makes this an excellent change.

Well thank you for bringing this topic back in its right track. My only issue is that you are suggesting two equally valid options for the role of defogger (either give Mew Baton Pass, or replace the guy with Latios), so yeah, I can't decide between the two. Although I don't like the idea of losing Mew because, as mentioned in the OP, it takes away some pressure from Landorus.

Also, do people really use Reflect Type Starmie? I have run into maybe a couple hundreds teams that included Starmie in my competitive experience, but it was always the LO set...

[Kamina]

Losing a physical wall in Mew may be worrying, but with Latios, you no longer are able to get swept by Sweepers (Depends on how many Dragon Dance boosts the opp has or something, but Latios beats a lot of set up sweepers/scarfers with Choice Scarf anyway). Your team isn't exactly a piece of paper either, so some of your team members (Clefable/Charizard-Y/Lando-T) can share hits that they take. Obviously that isn't the game plan, but you should be able to "play around" said mon. I personally would go with Choice Scarf Latios.

Most people who use Reflect Type starmie are generally defensive builds. So in team preview, you should be able to tell. It's something like Scald/Rapid Spin/Recover/Filler (Usually Reflect Type or Psyshock, but I use Reflect Type in most of my teams). So, to answer your question, yes. Depends on the team it is used on though. If the team is offensive looking, it's LO. More Defensive variants of teams are mostly Reflect Type.

[Tomas Elliot]

Welp, will test Scarf Latios and see how it goes...

... Is what I would like to say, but I am entering exam period, so I doubt I'll have that kind of free time. I'll see what I can do ;-;

[SJMistery]

First of all, I want to apologyze for having been so harsh with my previous comments. After seeing dozens of awfully made teams since the reset of the ladder on both Showdown and PO some months before, I tend to flip out on any mistake, no matter how tiny. I even tried to look for you in the ladder to challenge and "teach you a lesson". Sorry for that too, totally immature on my part.

Kamina, thanks for explaining on a civilized manner what I tried to explain. Maybe using scarf Landorus, leaving the stealth rocks to cleffable instead of using healing wish might be an alternative too to get a revenge killer and dragon and birdspam destroyer (with stone edge, rock slide or rock tomb), as Defog Latios in my opinion is not very reliable.

But keep that in mind, nothing I boasted before is a lie:

I actually AM a veteran Reborn player and I had a team in particular that used to strike fear on anyone. Want me to prove it? On the chat of the server, just mention "Substitute+Dragon Dance Dragonite", and ask who used it on BW. It's almost guaranteed to irritate everyone in a "Speak of the Devil" way. Not even perma-weather was so feared or hated as my Dragonite these days

And, if you do not mind using the traductor, I can also prove what I boasted above about the Gothistall. Look here to see the my prototype:

http://www.pokexperto.net/foros/index.php?topic=54448.1060

Its the 1074th comment, i have the same name and image on this forum, Made during January, and posted the 1-2-2015. Older than any other pure gothistall. On that forum is also where we have a teambuilder specialized in testing new sets too, with Eeveeto as our leader.

Edited January 13, 2016 by SJMistery

[Tomas Elliot]

But keep that in mind, nothing I boasted before is a lie

I don't care. "Lol dude I am so good I have many accomplishments so you must shut up and do what I say" is NOT an argument I shall ever accept in a discussion like this, period. Also because, it gives the impression that you are here not to help with a project, but rather to boast about how good you are and get everyone to praise you (incidentally, the fact that you are still here insisting that what you boasted about earlier is true gives the exact same impression).

I never cared about the competitive scene and I never will. I never cared about who is globally recognized as a good player and I never will. I never cared about getting some recognition for my own accomplishments and I never will. When I make a topic like this, I do it exclusively for the sake of sharing an idea of mine with other people and, if someone has something to say about it, I expect them to back their points up with solid arguments, better if expressed politely. In other words, I expect all the posts in the topic to be like Kamina's. Or like Ody's. Or like Nick's. Or like everyone's but yours, come to think of it.

This being said, I accept your apology. I still don't like your attitude and you probably don't like mine but hey, that's fine. It's not like one can be friends with everybody. Now if we could please consider this incident concluded and just move on.

[NickCrash]

In conclusion, I believe it's up to how YOU like to play, since some of the suggested options essentially give you similar results in the end of the game. I'd like to add to Kam's point that Latios is not so frail either and can take some hits on its own. Therefore you can, not only rely on it to outspeed anything, tank a few hits, and gives versatility in your efforts to bring down the opposing stall teams. Given that well-made stall can spread damage from your wallbreakers around and still weaken you with chip damage, this one is actually a nice idea, and Latios essentially works as another wallbreaker.

At the same time though, I'd like to pinpoint that now Latios' role overlaps with Keldeo's as they both have their own nuke attacks that hit both spectrums. Now, Water coverage is pretty much a must in the current meta, mainly due to the increased usage of T-Tar, Hippo, Excadrill, and also as a nice coverage move that few pokemon resist, if you feel that Keldeo's role is decreased, you can change its set for a CM/Sub one or even replace if for Manaphy. The last idea is not polished yet, but I was thinking of a set like this.

Manaphy @ Chesto Berry

Ability: Hydration

EVs: 188 HP / 112 Def / 186 SpA / 64 Spe (or you can go for 0 SpA / 252 Spe)

Nature: Timid / Modest

- Tail Glow

- Scald

- Ice Beam

- Rest

[Tomas Elliot]

My problem with that, Nick, is that Keldeo can smash Chansey, which is more than I can sy about any other special attacker in the game. Oh sure, Psyshock hits the blob's weak stat as well, but it is not supereffective. And while it is true that locking yourself into a Fighting-type move that hits Def makes it easy for cores that include Skarmory and Sableye, it is also true that a scarfed Psyshock would have the same problem while still not hitting as hard. So yeah, I'd rather go LO Keldeo, or come up with some other idea for the defogger, than lose Keldeo or make it a non wallbreaker set (SubCM kinda defeats the point of this project <.< )

[SJMistery]

There is no need to target on the weaker defense stat to break through Chansey with Latios. Trick will permanently cripple it, even if you already tricked the Choiced item away to another wall, by eliminating the blob's precious Eviolite. In fact, my modus operandi on stall is to send the choice specs on the steel type wall, then remove the eviolite, and recover the choice specs to (star)hammer the team to oblivion.

Edited January 23, 2016 by SJMistery

[Tomas Elliot]

Trick is not as effective with Megas around. Mega Sableye can switch freely into anything the suggested Latios set does. With Keldeo I can at least hope to burn it with Scald.

[SJMistery]

Yeah, Latios lacks a move to hit him, oh wait, it HAS one:

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 282-333 (92.7 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Sableye, good luck surviving a draco meteor with the specs and then using recover... oh wait the mega has no prankster and is slow....

252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 189-223 (62.1 - 73.3%)

-2 252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 94-112 (30.9 - 36.8%)

even without them it's a 56% chance to KO it without any prior damage or stealth rocks (no leftovers makes the former hard)

PD I would like to see you on the ladder, the easiest way to test if something works is with a battle, and it would be the easiest way to confront our opposed ideals

[Tomas Elliot]

PD I would like to see you on the ladder, the easiest way to test if something works is with a battle, and it would be the easiest way to confront our opposed ideals

Firstly, I thought I had made it very clear that I don't care about you, your (supposed) accomplishments and your (self-proclaimed) status as "pro". So stop blabbering about "opposed ideals", all I have said and done in this topic, and in every other RMT of mine, was for my own amusement and not to "oppose" you or anyone else.

Secondly, I have more pressing matters in my hands right now than testing solutions for a Pokemon team (namely, university exams), which is why I had left this topic to quitely fade out of significance for over a week, before you felt the need to come a resume the pointless argument.

Thirdly, there is more than teambuilding to a battle. Prediction, resources management and sheer luck are also key factors, so a single battle proves nothing when it comes to determining the actual effectiveness of an idea. Your "challenge" is nothing but a cute little attempt to once again fish for attention and show everyone how tough and skilled and "pro" you are which, again, is nothing I am interested in.

Look kid, I understand that you have nothing better to do, and I really do believe that, for you, the accomplishments you boast so much about are a key part of your identity. In a way, I envy you, I remember back when this kind of stuff was the biggest problem of my life, and I damn sure miss those long gone days, when nightmares about my current situation and my uncertain future had yet to start waking me up every night.

But you need to accept the fact that, at least to me, you are just not that interesting. It's that simple. I am not interested in your skills, I am not interested in your accomplishments, and while I might have been interested in what you had to say concerning this specific topic, had you bothered to be more respectful in expressing your points, that ship has long sailed.

I don't find you to be interesting, and I have no attention to spare for you: is this simple fact so terrifying for you, that you cannot bring yourself to leave me alone and let this topic die in peace? Of all the people out there who probably see you as some sort of Pokemon savior (judging from your own words, at least), what difference does it make if a single guy just does not care about you?

Fortunately enough, I am an ace member, so there is something I can do about it. Sure, I could report you, but that would be even more childish than your own behaviour, AND it would serve no practical purpose, because this topic had run its course anyway. So yeah, hopefully you will at least see fit not to post in my next RMT, if/when I make one.