Norm
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Posts posted by Norm
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1. I really, really like the sidequests and mapping/world. It all feels so rich and the love comes right of the page(er... screen). I think the sidequests are by far the most telling in the strengths of Rejuvenation. All of the character sidequests feel personal, and It's really nice to be able to help with the character's growth. They're all done pretty spectacularly, and they all showcase a different range of emotion and tone. The Hidden Library quests kinda feel like a good version of the mysteries in the current game. Karen's a bit annoying in dialogue, but I do like her descent into madness and lapses of clarity. I really adore the Goldenleaf stuff. The environmental story-telling there is top-notch. I just really like that the story details come together with Narcissa and the area through the various parts of the quest. The Goomink quest is super fun and wacky, and again the environmental storytelling is good. I also really like the ANA quest. I know this one is for sure gonna intersect with the Main Story, so juries still out on what happens then, but I really enjoy the progression and insight into Dylan and how his relationship with ANA grows. It's also well paced, it always feels like I'm getting a new piece to the puzzle. I honestly wish most of the story was told environmentally because it's done so well, and clearly leaves room for the characters to shine.
2. The music's really great. I know it's a fangame, and a good bit of the music is more of a curation, but there isn't a bad track. The leitmotifs are used really well and fit the characters.
3. I really like the more down-to-earth moments of the story. Points like comforting Amber and Erin opening up to Melia. There tends to be really good character stuff in these scenes. It makes me not only understand the characters but feel for them. Something like when Erin talks about how she would've killed herself if she didn't meet the crew actually heartfelt. I think these scenes show that Rejuvenation gets characterization.
4. I think the early-game rewrites more or less fixed any flaws that people had with the earlygame. It gets better characterization, things are more clear, characters don't randomly act like assholes, and it flows really well. If the rest of the story were as seamless as this, I don't think I could complain if I wanted to. It's good enough that I'm willing to look past its flaws because of the good parts. I think that's the balance I'm looking for as a whole. Rejuvenation is always gonna have flaws because nothing's ever perfect. If it can get the big things like character and story right, sky's the limit.
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Hey, have you heard about Pokemon Rejuvenation? It’s pretty fun! Story’s dogshit though. I’m just gonna jump out the gate with it, it’s almost fundamentally flawed. Rejuv interests me so much because it has heaps of potential from the outset, especially with the changes to earlygame. I genuinely thought I was gonna enjoy the rest of the game since all the earlygame problems are fixed so well. The thing is that the problems in the game after like Blacksteeple are on a much deeper level than what was presented earlier. Hope you like reading, cause this is a long one.
SpoilerI tend to think that stories are balanced by two things. It's all about Emotion vs. Mechanics. Emotion are those… things that you feel. I have heard if it before. They are what the little guy on the screen feels and what the audience feels. Mechanics are all the things you learned in - insert 101 class here - like tone, development, plot. The two are like dog and cat people. Some parts appeal to people more than others, but c’mon man, who doesn’t like both?
Rejuv strikes me as like 80/20 leaning heavily towards emotion. By that I mean that’s where it’s strengths lie. It is really good at doing emotional bits. Don’t lie, you wer feeling some type of way with that Nancy stuff. It can also do well just being lighthearted, and know when to get emotional. My favorite moments are the single character moments like cheering up Amber, helping Mosely, and connecting the dots with Narcissa’s past. They feel real, relevant, and rewarding. I think WLL gets it and just goes full on sappy, and that’s probably the best Rejuv thing, almost universally it seems. The problem is: that other part, the mechanics, are kinda trash.
Rejuvs plot is kinda hard to diagnose because it has an ensemble of problems. It feels uninspired, convoluted, nonsensical, camp, overindulgent, cursory, rushed, bloated, y’know I’m just gonna roll with “cheeks”. For starters, and it took me a while to see this, is that there really isn’t one? It sounds weird, but what’s the goal we’re accomplishing, and more importantly how are we seeking to accomplish it?
A lot of Rejuv just showcases characters sitting around until whoever the fuck sends something or someone along. 90% of the cast has no motivation and 10% of the remaining 10% actually work towards their goals. Plot is really simple actually. Mosley wants to save Maman, but she can’t afford the medicine. Problems ensue. That’s a plot. Our heroes need to save the world, so they sit in at home base until things happen to them Is not a very active or interesting plot. This happens quite a few times, most recently in V13. Also there’s the archetype… and the interceptor… And then team Xen… uhh then they time travel… and terrorists! That’s not really a plot. What am I following? Why? What do the bad guys want? Huh? That one bitch is a robot? Huh??? Save the world plots are really dumb. There’s no personal stakes because what even somewhat sensible person wants to destroy the world. Even if they had the most noble reasons, virtually everybody else would oppose them on principle.
Point is the story is good when the characters deal with personal issues, and bad when it goes into JRPG nonsense. The best segment of the game is definitely the early story bits. They’re simple, flow well, and actually showcase the strengths of the writing: That being the character-motivated stories. I get so much more out of a rich world like this watching characters yearn and struggle then a do reading random dossiers on characters I don’t know or concepts that are kept vague.
Something like Melia's death isn’t good because it’s shocking. Nobody actually believed that. It’s good for what it does to Ren and Venam. They just lost their young, peppy friend, and have to grow up without her somehow. That’s an actual character moment.
A huge problem with the game is that it often plays against its strength and goes for JRPG nonsense. And sweet formless lord does it go into JRPG nonsense.
People, we’re talking about a game that casually introduces Time Travel halfway through the story. We’re talking formally introducing multiple universes in the newest version.
Rejuv treats these gigantic premises like ancient civilizations and a fucking machine that materializes dreams as casual set pieces. They only exist to move the plot forward with no care for how they’re used. It’s like the 2nd half of DBZ, but with less developed characters.
It’s all poorly explained and usually feels derivative from another thing that exists. It’s not interesting, but the game sure thinks it is. The game is dumb in this regard.
The problem is that the game gets it’s head up it’s ass and thinks this stuff is important. Rejuv likes to float a billion questions about the convoluted lore and mysteries because it’s deep? I think it’s to try and seem smart and surprise the audience. It’s like a child, or a redditor. Rejuv chooses to answer none of the important ones like, what do these people want? Why do they want that? Was this character/element necessary? and of course “what the hell’s the point game? And instead beats me over the head with “Who is -insert masked villain here-?” Or “what is the Interceptor?” You tell me, game. It’s a made up concept in a made up world that has been made within a pre-existing made up world. If you told me everything about the intercepted currently in the story anytime earlier, it really wouldn’t change the game in essence
If you’re going to float questions, you have to have the characters seek the answers to them and hopefully it actually feels like a narrative is being created through the Q and A. Aelita wants to know why her father is so distant? That gets answered through action, spurring more questions, spurring more action on her part. Rejuv usually opts to answer through long exposition or backstory dumps, usually over-complicating things in the process. It cares more about surface level things like “surprise” and “mysteriousness” than it does characterization and progression.
Also why is everything so convoluted. Do we really need all of Time Travel, Dimension hopping, Homunculi, Hypertech ancient civilization, and probably more coming down the pipe? Is this really the best part of Rejuv, is it necessary for this many things to work concurrently?
I could see these things maybe work, but they’re never really explained. Why does Saving Vivian change the future, but not anything else? Like shouldn’t almost everything we do in the past have irreparable changes? If the space chuds and Madame X can both time travel, why don’t they just go to the past and do something like kill Vivian?
See the problems wanton use of something like time-travel makes? There’s some neat character bits that come with it, but you have to set rules, man!
I just don’t think most of the characters are used well. I think All the characters in the immediate family in WLL are good, like Aelita, Amber, Kenneth, and Tesla are pretty great! It could be because it gets a whole separate story, though… Erin’s cool because she isn’t a friendship drone and having an ascerbic character in the group spices up most of the dynamics. Mosely and Narcissa are really cool because they’re stories are actually personal and character driven. We get an introdution to these characters revealing everything we should know about them, and then they interact with the cast and story, developing along the way. That’s all I ask! Past that I got a hot plate of problems, again.
The game has a hard time developing even the most central of characters from some reason. Aside from some superpowers, Melia is basically the same person from the beginning of the game throughout. She has developmental moments, but they don’t ever seem to stick or aren’t really executed super well with the Jenner thing. We knew the guy for all of two seconds and half of that time wasn’t even devoted to showing his relationship with Melia. If Melia is gonna be this prevalent if a character, I’d hope she’d be interesting by now. Static characters are fine, but they’re limited, kinda goes with the territory. At some point, you’d hope they’d change or be existentially challenged after a while. Melia kinda tries to get developed, but there’s just not enough time for it to stick, I guess.
Characters either develop off screen, or are rushed through beats to get to the DEEP AND WATER-TIGHT STORY!! A character like Ren is more or less offscreen for like half of the game and comes back more or less the same. I guess he’s a robot now, or piloting a robot double, sapping all tension away from him in any scene. Everyone is fine with him being a high ranking Xen guy after one convo. Otherwise it’s something like Nim and Venam in V13, where their development is so rushed to it’s conclusion it’s barely there. Can’t you let these things stew for a bit. Development in real people can take years! Theres no way I believe these guys are changed after a conversation where that one sappy piano song plays.
I think the bad guy lounge thing tries to develop the villain group, particularly Ren. Guess what they do all the time when we see it? Sit around and knock back shots. Id say they could take their time and actually let us get to see these characters deal with shit, but we got to get to everybody else Everybody else is decidedly less inportant. Or annoying. sometimes both.
Even worse, there are wayyyy too many characters in this game. There are like 80 different characters and probably 100+ if you count the lore and name drops. It could be fine if most of them were like one offs. But no, they’re all boxing for screen time, even the most ineffectual of them. Like what do characters like Reina, Huey, Kanon, Rhodea, or recent one offs like Risa even bring? These characters could be snapped out of the game and lose virtually nothing. Especially Reina and Huey. Do we need another bumbling booby and goofy girl in our adventures?
This problem is even worse then the villains. Rejuv really likes to recycle the “smug evil villain”. Y’know, the one that laughs at you and calls you a wiener head till you beat their ass. There’s Zeta, Madelis, Geara, Angie, Flora, Cassandra, Melanie, and the Space Chuds. Only like Crescent (who’s morality is arguable) and Madame X differ from this. A good villain can carry a story, but a lot of the villains either feel the same or suffer from the Ooh Mysterious background that wafts through the story like a stench. Half these guys could die or get cut out simply because they’re redundant. Geara literally shows up for two seconds and asks “why am I here?” Why is he here? He’s not even a threat anymore. I doubt many of these guys are actually going to be relevant in the final battles, though I don’t doubt they’ll be there…
I feel like if you picked 2 or 3 villains. (Say Madame X, Crescent, and the Space lady), actually characterized them, and had em go to town, You’d have some pretty competent, threatening villains. But they all just kinda sit around until their needed for a scene.
I guess it all loops back to that whole nonsensical plot… thing that the characters keep yappin their gobs about. It’s a shame because there are genuine parts I like about the game, but the plot is so, so bad. It feels purposeless and garbled, made worse by how in your face most of it is. If you turn your brain off and just casually view things happening, I think I could get the appeal. It’s like a Kojima game, but the fun Kojima moments are inconsequential side-pieces (So I guess Death Stranding).
The unfortunate thing is that, story wise. The game is gonna be hard pressed to salvage anything at this point. We’re in deep with garbo. I thought going into V13 that things would start to make sense with such a big volume, but no. The story might actually be getting worse as the volumes go on. It’s just more villains, more new plot points, more questions, and more characters, with a dash of clarity and growth.
I guess I’m curious what other people think about the story. If you’re able to look past all the flaws in stories, you’re one lucky bastard, lemme tell ya. What do you like about Rejuvenation? would you change anything? I feel like this thing has a lot more potential than just a Pokemon Fan Game, but conversely there is so much wrong with the story you’d basically half to either scrap or completely rework a huge portion of the story. Past that, I guess it’s cheers! I know I need a couple brewskis if I’m gonna keep thinking about this story, man.
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We've got an update, ladies and GentleRons
Rises
- Dodrio to S
- Serperior to A, citing Khrona's write-up
- Meowstic to A
- Pyroar to B
Drops
- Walrein to C
- Maybe Aggron to B
New Additions
- Butterfree to A
- Donphan to B
- Raichu to C
- Bewear to B
- Mightyena to C
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I am always glad when someone offers a positive side of things, I am rarely positive, but it is what it is. I actually agree with Azzie over all the things that they like. I like the game a lot. The experience it provides is fun for sure, but that doesn't mean that I think its good. I try to separate what I like vs. What I find good. It's great when it happens to be both, but it rarely happens.
Rejuv's merits are in that it wears its heart on its sleeve, and is therefore able to resonate emotionally with the rest of the story. My problem is that emotional attachment is only one strategy in storytelling when you need like all of them down pat to tell a great story. Storytelling's fuckin' hard. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I like the emotions and the passion in the story, I don't think there is anybody who's gonna say otherwise. I hate the execution of things like the Plot and most of the Characters.Melia's problems are almost all execution. It's not just a matter of "I just don't like this type of character". She's really not all that special in terms of JRPG Protag circumstances. It's not that I don't get Melia's character. I think I do (from whats currently presented/implied). She's a normal girl who gets caught in the wheel of fate. She doesn't actually want to do any of this shit, but she feels she has to. My problem with her is that Melia never feels organic in her actions and character. The game would have you believe that Melia is a super nice gal who is very empathetic and has a natural charisma, yet the game's execution presents her as rather pig-headed, reckless, and rather self aggrandizing. Melia's struggles are seemingly more important than everybody else, which is the case in a meta sense. She's a main protagonist after all, but she never feels like someone I'd want to ever follow. She's horribly flawed, and her flaws are ignored.
My favorite example is when Melia essentially makes her self the leader of saving Nim, despite not knowing Nim very well at all, puts up a half-baked plan, and foists all the grunt work on the PC. After all that, Melia completely borks the mission which gets Nim ( and us!) killed (thank Arceus for plot armor). Melia should lose all "leader privileges" right here. This was almost all her fault, yet the story never calls her out on it. Why wouldn't people hate Melia after that?
Another problem that some characters have is that you actually don't get to see them development. Take Melia (Please!), She leaves the story for a good bit, and comes back essentially a different character altogether. It really doesn't count as character development if you can't see them develop. This actually happens quite a bit more than it should. Ren really takes a hit here, because he's gone for so god damn long, and comes back having just gotten over most of his issues. Seeing is believing in character development. It really isn't dynamic if you can't see it happen.
Compare that with Aelita, who is a perfect example of an organic character. She has flaws, and these flaws are addressed in her character. She really has a lot of the same flaws that are presented with Melia, but they feel natural, and her flaws create conflict with other characters and herself. It always feels rewarding to be around Aelita because she is always growingas a character through the events, unlike Melia whose core character is never actively addressed or put into conflict. Aelita's a waaaaaay better character than Melia because she is better established, better developed, and the game knows when to not force her into scenes. If Aelita's backstory was shoved in our faces the way Melia's does, it would have the same effect, but the restraint is much appreciated.
Another thing that can work in theory, but is bungled in execution is the ensemble cast. Rejuv is very JRPG influenced, which in turn is very anime influenced. Blah Blah blah, point is both mediums really like large ensemble casts. But an ensemble cast still needs balance to it. Imagine if in AoT, Sasha and Connie got as much screentime as like Levi or Mikasa, that'd be ridiculous. But that's what Rejuv is doing. Every story has characters that are more important than others, and for good reason. I don't think its controversial to say Ren has more going on character-wise than someone like Braixen or Adam, his goals and responsibilities are inherently weightier than theirs. So why is it that they get the same billing as him in terms of screentime? It feels sloppy and stomps out any natural trajectory or momentum of a story, when a character is put on a backburner to cut away to the Jobber Squad. Part of the reason I like the sidequests so much is because it allows for the exploration of a character like Mosely or Narcissa who aren't that important to the plot, while not invading the main story.
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I think Rejuvenation is interesting and has heaps and heaps of potential, but its an incredibly flawed story that very bad writing but still entertaining. Rejuv is very flabby. Floppy Flabby.
Rejuvenation as a story has one defining question and sticks with it. That is: WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!?
There's just too much stuff to wrap your head around. The story is very Kingdom Hearts esque. It jingles setpieces in front of you, but if you ask questions like "What?", "Why?", and "How in the world..." everything starts to fall apart.
For starters, there are way too many characters. I get why people would like this. But I think we're pushing like 90 characters or something now, each with their own intricate side-stories and plot threads. It starts to get confusing, and characters that kinda need more screentime like Ren seem to get shafted when newer characters are introduced. Like there's no way characters like Saki and Huey are as important as somebody like Ren and Aelita. I think having a defined set of Main Characters and a defined set of Supporting Characters is easier and better long-term, but that's just me.
The story and characterization is kept in the dark for way too long, mostly for villains. This one really irks me. It seems things as simple and important as character development is treated like some kind of plot twist, and that couldn't be further from the truth. Motivation is like the second important thing for character after personality, and we don't know jack about motivation for Xen or the Cult guys after 12 volumes. Sure we have vague ideas, but nothing to really work with. Is it really too much to have anybody just explain a motivation, and then act consistently to achieve that goal past that? I'll take anything as long as we don't get a GlassWorks factory Power Hour of infodumps. Please?
It doesn't help that a lot of the main cast are underutilized/unlikeable. Ren gets thrown in the Day Care so to speak for 7 chapters or so, and we don't even get to see his development. Melia'a (Sorry, There's really no other term I can think of) a Mary-Sue who the world revolves around and saps the agency and autonomy of every character around her. Terajuma and the weird Future Past bit could be interesting, but no. It has to revolve around Melia. Venam's basically a selfish, immature Krillin to Melia's Goku. She's a satellite character that exists as a static love interest and serves little purpose besides that.
Aelita's cool though.
It's a shame because I think when characters actually get to do stuff divorced from the main plot, it gets really compelling. Aelita's journey is great (and she's basically just a better heroine than Melia) Keta is great in WLL, Mosely's sidequest is nice, The whole Narcissa questline is great, the environmental storytelling is great. A lot of things are good, but it is always a sidepiece to the cacophany of the main story.
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I think that whenever I use Scolipede, Baton Pass is really contingent on having good mons to baton pass to. A lot of the best sweepers don't necessarily need Scolipede to work, though they do appreciate it, and others just don't cut the mustard to sweep, even with boosts. Deso threats are fast. We're talking at least one 130+Speed pokemon on most boss fights from Addenfall to Blackview.
Scolipede either wants to dedicate to making the best sweepers stronger, or to work in between (Scolipede doesn't have the tools to sweep by itself currently). The former doesn't really highlight Scolipede as a great standalone party member as it works best in context with other Pokemon. In the latter, it just doesn't work nearly as well as others. Bug typing is pretty horrible offensively, even with Megahorn. You're going to face resistances, and you're only good coverage option is non-STAB Normal. Scolipede kinda slogs through routes and dungeons because of it being highly specialized.
If you want to dedicate to Baton Pass, you nix coverage for Protect + Iron Defense, which makes Scolipede even more reliant on team coverage. If you want it to perform better alone, you take normal coverage or even Toxic, which makes it less consistent as Baton Pass support.
Now Scolipede's niche is strong. But it is a niche, it's pretty average outside of passing to the MVP. Scolipede is markedly less consistent than Dodrio, and especially DuskDog. Even for 3rd best Beach Bum is debatable with the others sans Pangoro being arguably more consistent alone.
I think it's fair to say my list is pretty carry-biased, cuz that's how I think V5 is kinda structured until, like, Addenfall. Scolipede's biggest flaw is that it's not a carry imo, it helps your carries get better, but that isn't super priority for me. I do think It's interesting, and probably deserves more playthroughs to see how it goes.
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Desolation V5 In-game tiers
Howdy! I’ve decided to compile a viability/ in game tiers
This type of list is inspired by Smogon’s series of In game tiers. Typically these tiers are for quick runs of the maingames, organizing Pokemon by tiers based on how they perform in the game with criteria like availability, in-game movepool, notable matchups, and overall strength at all stages the mon is present in. Reborn’s idea of limiting resources is largely based on the Orre games, so I think that those games make a good reference as to how these lists work.
Most of the “good” Pokemon help you get through the game’s content faster and easier. They’re not really a speedrun, but they do prioritize Pokemon that speed up the game by making the game easier. They are generally able to dispatch enemies quickly in random battles, and perform well in important battles as well.
It’s worth mentioning Reborn-Esque fangames reward exploration heavily, and Desolation in particular has plot-benefits from exploration, so rushing through content is often ill advised. Pokemon won’t be knocked for having to backtrack to do it, or if it’s off the beaten path. Time sinks like breeding for usable movepools would knock off a few points because it requires a lot more effort and planning to do, and isn’t necessary outside of things like a Monotype run.
Reborn Esque games have much more difficulty than most of the mainline games, and many more Pokemon available. Better Pokemon tend to be staggered through the game, and most players will tend to have a rotation of Pokemon. I tend to give more points to availability than stopping power. Conkeldurr may be better than Hariyama in every way theoretically, but Conkeldurr ain’t around for Tristan and comes at a far lower level than Hariyama would be at. However, Conkeldurr can pick up the slack if you feel Hariyama’s petering out as more versions come out. As a result Hariyama would be considered “better” in this part of the game because it is a strong asset in a difficult part of the game. Hariyama isn’t better in a vacuum, but it makes the game easier as it’s easy to acquire and immediately helps fill out a roster.
Temp. Pokemon and having a rotation is often encouraged in these games. From experience, I’d say the best way is to have a 6-man main team and having 2-4 (Maybe 6 if you really want to) rotation Pokemon. I really think it’s unnecessary to have an entire box full of rotation Pokemon, you can do it but it means more grinding and kinda defeats the purpose of tight team building. It is a nice safety net for many.
Things that make a mon good
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Immediate usefulness (how long until it takes off)
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Availability (Ideally the Pokemon comes early and isn’t in the crest shop. It doesn’t knock a mon too much if they’re in the shop, but they cost a pretty penny, and adds up when you start getting multiple for a team.
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Natural Kit (Same as Reborn/Rejuv. Greater emphasis on what a pokemon can get naturally without tms and tutors compared to main game)
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General Performance. General I think is a more important metric since if you’re good in this category, you’re gonna be good in Boss battles as well (e.x. Lycanroc, Infernape). There are some support Pokemon or Tanks that shine in Boss Battles, but slog just going through routes (D M-Meowstic). Desolation also has a lot of long routes with trainers that are packing heat, so it’s good to have a mon that can carry you through these
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Offense is generally the best defense in vanilla Pokemon (With some annoying exceptions…) and field effects generally make face-tanking much harder.
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Notable Battles
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Either Switch or Set works for this, keep in mind that Switch lets you get away with Playing aggressively, thus rewarding sweepers more. With Set, you might want something defensive at times in these fangames, but not so much that you become stall. That rarely works with field effect damage being so high.
Notes
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Pokemon within tiers are unordered more or less, probably will stay that way, given varied roles and stuff.
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If you like weather teams, Weather is actually pretty decent here with at least 1 available in each weather (Politoed=Rain, Gigalith,= Sand, Ninetales = Sun Vanillish = Hail). The pecking order right now is Rain>Sand>>Sun>>>Hail (Don’t do hail please…) so, basically the normal pecking order if you’ve ever done Singles weather.
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There is less of an earlygame period compared to Reborn and Rejuv. Those games have 4 gyms in by the time Deso has 2, so the Fall-off gang mons like Kricketune and Vivillon are far less desirable
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Given that, I have no idea what to do with D-Tier ATM
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Any mon with a ? followed by a + or – means I think that you could argue higher or lower, and may be able to rise if enough demonstrable experiences are corroborated
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Day Care is pretty hard to justify the time sink it and how far in you get it. It isn’t too far in the grand scheme of things, but breeding takes time, even moreso with Egg moves. If there are easy to obtain egg moves through breeding that don’t take much training/chain breeding. Let me know.
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Challenge Runs like Mono-type and Lockes aren’t really going to be considered in this list, mostly because I don’t really do them often, and also because it doesn’t really change placements. You could just look at a list based on your restrictions and things will perform as they do.
S-Tier
SpoilerBlaziken?+
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Easily the best sweeper in the game
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Bulk Up + STABS is almost unrivalled in natural movesets
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Speed boost gives it boosts each turn, making it incredibly fast if it gets in off a good matchup
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Essentially works as a win-con if set up properly, able to punch holes in teams, if not outright sweep.
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Blaziken is like the only guy who can sweep through the speed demons that many bosses tend to pack as a vibe-check in the midgame.
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Amazing offenses, can even go mixed if you want with Work Up later.
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Listen, man. he’s just really good.
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Has some problems early game with the early bosses, specifically Aderyn
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There are very few Pokemon that check it, most of them uncommon. but they can hardwall Blaziken.
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Needs at least 1 move tutor, which is 5 credits a pop. Ideally HJK and/or Flare Blitz or even Fire punch for consistency
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No Wide Lens means it can choke when you don’t want it to.
Lycanroc (Dusk)
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AKA Sn1p3rD0GG0
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Immediately useful for Shiv and Connor
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Evolves early with Great stats
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Gets Thrash at lvl 25, combined with its ability this does more than STAB Stone edge at neutral. Howl can really come in clutch in the early/midgame
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117/110 offenses is great basically the entire campaign and doesn’s show signs of slowing down
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He’s a good pup
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- Great earlygame matchups, easily the best for the starters
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- Defenses are weak, can’t take too many hits
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- Kind of one trick with Rock/Normal atm, but still has room to grow
Flygon
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Probably the best non-starter sweeper
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Great typing, hitting most enemies for Neutral at best
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Great moveset. Dragon dance is supported by Earthquake and D-Claw and rounded out by choice of Crunch, Superpower (Trapinch), Rock slide, or even Return.
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Evolves quite soon after you get it
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Very good against fights like Emily, Aaron, and can even set up on Rosetta’s Klefki and sweep if carrying Rock slide.
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Kind of Credit Hungry. Needs Dragon Dance, and then maybe wants Rock Slide, though Superpower and Crunch are just as good (They can’t be learned again through relearner either)
A-Tier
SpoilerInfernape
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Basically Blaziken lite with some Key differences
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Trades stopping power for More versatility and some utility
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Has good move options in Close Combat/Grass knot/Flare Blitz/Taunt/Mach Punch/Acrobatics. Fire/Fighting STAB really carries
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Can even run special sets with Access to Calm Mind/Nasty Plot from Chimchar though it really doesn’t have the moveset for this yet.
-
Good abilities with Blaze/Iron fist. Blaze is currently better unless you plan to use Mach Punch.
-
Frail, with 76/71/71 defenses
-
While fast, 108 speed is outspeed by quite a few things. Try not to overestimate its natural speed.
-
Overall Great Swiss Army Pokemon
Dodrio
-
Don’t sleep on Dodrio, kids. It’s basically a goofy lookin’ Staraptor, and the kids love their Staraptors.
-
Dodrio is a premier sweeper, which is rare in Deso, as most sweepers don’t all their moves through level
-
110/110 Offenses are a great Sweeper chassis
-
Normal/Flying + Fighting coverage is effectively perfect coverage + Swords Dance lets it sweep quite effectively. Even has Priority/ Double Dance option with Agility and Accupressure’s a fun meme too.
-
Frail as hell with 70/60/60 defenses and few resistances make it hard for it to set up heavy.
-
Has pretty bad 4 move-slot syndrome, wanting to have its perfect coverage but has to pick between Return for damage vs Quick Attack Priority; Coverage for the occasional Double Dance set (Agility/Accupressure+Swords Dance)
-
Things like to get really fast real quick in Deso for boss battles (Swellow/Mega Lopunny/Mega Manectric, meaning that it’s good speed is gonna be contested and Drio does not like getting hit in the fa-er… faces.
Delphox?+
-
Another solid Fire mon
-
Largely unchanged from Reborn
-
Strong moveset for most of the game, with good STAB combo and strong utility like Light Screen and Will-o-wisp
-
Good offenses with 114/100 letting it hit hard
-
Early Psychics are pretty rare right now, which gives Delphox some value
-
Decent special bulk with 75/72/100 but note the lower phys. defense
-
Good coverage with Grass knot/Dazzing Gleam through TM, and Shadow Ball through Tutor
-
Not a dedicated sweeper having no boosting methods
-
Overall just a real solid mon with few, similar to Infernape, but with an arguably less powerful STAB Combo
Incineroar
-
Strong Physically with 115 Attack
-
Great Bulk of 90/95/90 is boosted by Intimidate
-
Flame Charge coming early lets it boost its low speed
-
Can even get Bulk up through Relearner if you want a kind of bulky setup sweeper
-
Fire/Dark is quite good offensively
-
It’s level up movepool is pretty late-bloomer excepting Darkest Lariat with some status and middling normal coverage.
-
As mentioned before, its quite slow and needs quite a few set up turns if you’re playing the sweeper (Though it’s bulk and ability give it more time than competition)
-
Has to choose between Tanky attacker with Versatile coverage, or Sweeper with 2 STABS + Flame Charge/Bulk up, both of which have flaws.
Swampert
-
Great Typing with only one weakness, but you knew this already
-
Has much better stats overall than its brethren of the same typing
-
100/90/90 bulk and 110/85 offensives lets it take and hit back pretty well
-
Gets most of what it needs via level-up with Muddy Water, Rock Slide, and Earthquake all being great moves ingame.
-
Wishes it had a good physical Water STAB
-
Is quite slow, so it’s gonna be taking hits pretty often.
-
It’s power is a bit middling between level 38 to 51 (Muddy Water to EQ)
Greninja
-
Comes out the gate immediately useful, Can body Connor if sweeping Four-Eyes appeals to you
-
Protean giving STAB on Everything gives it a good early-midgame.
-
Despite it’s bad defenses. Protean is surprisingly good defensively as the AI can’t play around it. You can use it to chip down mons and kill with an effective attack.
-
Good early TMs like Hidden Power (You can reliably albeit tediously roll for a good one) Aerial Ace, and Grass Knot
-
Grass Knot lowkey makes it one of the best Grass Starters
-
Base 122 is very fast, (not fast enough for some of the fast megas you fight, but it is what it is)
-
95/103 lets it go physical or special and still run mixed coverage
-
It’s not a sweeper, Its damage is good, but never really oneshot range in boss fights. Can struggle against Defensive Pokemon that can hit back.
-
Is stuck with base 60 moves for a long time and Water Pulse is Stuck with Water Pulse for Water STAB for a long time (until surf).
Primarina
-
Good stats and Typing make it deceptively tanky.
-
Hits hard with a chonk 126 Spatk stat
-
Great natural movepool comprised of mix of damage and utility Sing/Encore/and even Misty Terrain Lategame
-
Gets move upgrades quick with Sparkling Aria at 34 and Moonblast 10 levels later.
-
A real good pick for an all arounder that can usually find a way to meaningfully contribute
-
Quite slow
-
80/74/116 Defenses are lopsided towards SpDef, not really a flaw, but something to remember matchup wise. Primarina likes to pick its battles as it’s not a dedicated sweeper.
Serperior
-
Peculiar Starter that’s a high investment sweeper provided you’re willing to put up with it being trash for a long time
-
Contrary Leaf storm is available… as a Snivy at lvl 43. You’re gonna have to put up with it or just not use it for the meantime.
-
As a result it’s terrible for the first two gyms, but Khrona brought up a great point that it was trash anyways
-
It can do some weaker set up sets with Coil or Growth, but those are way worse
-
75/75 offenses are pretty bad pre-boosting
-
75/95/95 defenses is pretty good, but it isn’t really wall, especially with field boosted moves
-
Leaf Storm on Contrary is essentially Nasty Plot + STAB 140 Damage, that’s pretty crazy
-
Is pretty amazing for Boss fights from Tristan to Emily
-
It’s movepool isn’t actually too bad. Leaf Storm/Wring Out/Hidden Power/Giga Drain (You can save scum if you want) is actually quite good.
-
Terrible for most early routes like Vejyr and Silver Rise, unlike every other Starter basically
-
Serperior is a very potent special Sweeper if you want to invest into it, but keep in mind its limitations and the opportunity cost if you care.
M-Meowstic
-
Premier Screen Setter. That’s all it should do
-
Prankster lets it set up screens with priority!
-
Comes at too high a level to get light screen without Relearner
-
Listen, Meowstic sets up screens, That’s all it does well.
-
That isn’t a knock against Meowstic, Screens let your set up sweepers and big hitters stay in for longer and wreak more havoc. It’s pretty amazing as far as it goe
-
None of its stats matter, it’s bulk is 74/76/81 fwiw, but Screens are Screens and it’s currently unrivaled in that regard (A-Ninetales, not available yet btw, is arguably better, but also arguably worse)
-
Meowstic can be slotted anytime, even underlevelled just to set up screens or maybe weather.
Starmie
-
Ladies and gentlemen, I present: Greninja-lite
-
Comes somewhat late at Blackview, but is out the gate good with a Waterstone, and a move tutor (Prob Hydro Pump)
-
Great Movepool with great available coverage. Pump and Psychic are good, and can get coverage like Power Gem and Dazzling Gleam
-
100/115 relevant offenses is pretty good, and made better by its coverage.
-
60/85/85 is coming pretty close to good defenses.
-
No setup options lowers its damage output considerably compared to others
-
Has problems with 4MSS
-
Possibly Credit-hungry, depending on what you want it to do,
Darmanitan
-
Haha Flare Blitz go brrr- oops I’m dead.
-
The epitome of Glass Cannon
-
140 Atk + Sheer Force means BIG DAMAGE
-
Flare Blitz is a veritable nuke when boosted by STAB and Sheer Force
-
Superpower/Hammer arm make for good coverage but be wary of their downside
-
Can even set up with Belly Drum or Work up if you’re crazy enough or find a good setup for it
-
SUPER frail. 105 HP ain’t sh*t with 55/55 defenses, Can’t even really take field-boosted resistances. Flare Blitz also eats away at its HP
-
Really One-trick. Darm comes in, Nukes, and probably dies.
-
Zen mode is terrible. Don’t use it. But you knew that already
-
95 Speed isn’t fast enough for it to sweep most of the time
Braviary
-
Big Bird here is a Surprisingly Bulky Attacker, which is pretty rare for flying types
-
Gets Brave Bird + Roost as egg moves, which are both quite good.
-
Superpower is really good coverage, and also gets STAB on Return if you need that
-
123 Attack is pretty big coupled with its high-power moves.
-
Roost lets it heal up damage and lose the flying type for a turn which can give it some longevity in fights.
-
Braviary isn’t a Tank, it’s got some heft to it, but it isn’t going to take a prolonged beating well. Most of its tanking comes either from EVs, Roost, or both.
-
80 Speed is basically the rest stop between Kinda Slow, and Kinda fast. It’ll outspeed the slower half and get outspeed by the other.
Ambipom
-
A.K.A definitely not Cincinno
-
Comes with Skill Link (Forced) and Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Fake Out
-
STAB Return makes up for lack of Tail Slap
-
100/115 offenses isn’t bad at all!
-
Is kinda a meme king of sorts, just give it a King’s Rock and you’ll see what I mean
-
Has some other Wacky sets like Technician with Double-Hit as the STAB or a real wacky Baton Pass set, but those are mostly inferior to what it his initially
-
Real bad defenses with 75/66/66 defenses and No resistances Sans ghost immunity
-
Can get walled pretty easily by Certain ghosts types and virtually all Steel Types.
Politoed?-
-
All Hail the Rain Lord!
-
The earliest weather setter if that’s your thing
-
Rain is the most versatile Weather, helping out Water Types as well as Electric and Steel
-
Poliwag is Connor’s worst Enemy with Water Sport/Early Rain Dance
-
Good utility with Hypnosis/Perish Song
-
Politoed’s Stats are average Across the board, it’s not super bulky nor does it hit hard.
-
Has to choose between Evolving before Tristan or stay Poliwhirl until 48 for Hydro Pump
-
Is really only useful long term if you like the idea of a rain-setter. Doesn’t really do well as a standalone Water type.
Roserade
-
Basically a free Grass Starter
-
Gets a guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and comes early
-
Boosted EXP gain is always nice
-
Good movepool provided you evolve it into Roselia Quick with moves like Giga Drain, Grasswhistle and Toxic spikes coming pretty quick
-
Roserade can tutor to get Grassy Terrain, which is always good
-
Good stats basically trading some of Venusaur’s defense for more speed and damage
Aggron
-
Aggron will be referred to as “The Biggun” for the rest of this write-up. Also answers to “Big Ron”
-
The Biggun comes immediately with Iron Head and Rock Slide, which are great STABS to have, especially so early
-
Has a great matchup against like half of Aderyn’s team and she’s no joke.
-
70/180 defense with Steel/Rock means The Biggun laughs at most physical attacks as long as you don’t Punch ‘em or shake the ground. The Biggun’s very scared of Earthquakes
-
Base 110 Atk means The Biggun is hitting hard.
-
Great abilities all around with Sturdy letting it always survive a hit, Heavy Metal for stronger STAB In Heavy Slam, and Rock head if you somehow get Head Smash on it.
-
Steel Rock gives it some crazy resistances, but some horrible weaknesses to some common offensive types being Ground Fighting, and Water
-
It’s special Defense is exploitable with 70/60 being on the frail side
Mamoswine
-
Strong Beefy Attacker
-
A natural Earthquake user at lvl 46 that gets some nice Ice moves and priority.
-
130 Atk is pretty hefty letting its attacks pack a punch (tusk?)
-
110/80/60 lets take some hits, but it’s far from bulky
-
80 Speed isn’t fast, but it’s basically dead average, which is pretty good when you wallbreak like Mamoswine
-
Ice STAB is pretty middling without breeding, which is more of an investment than it is in Reborn/Rejuv
-
Lacks good coverage or utility for the most part. Mostly relegated to spamming STABs and Priority (But it’s what its good at.)
Ludicolo?-
-
All Hail the Rain Sweeper!
-
Surprisingly good movepool if you’re willing to wait getting things like Giga Drain/Nature Power/Hydro Pump/Rain Dance naturally, though you have to be aware of when to evolve it both times
-
Swift Swim can make it really fast (It can even Outspeed Mega Lop if you’re lucky with IVs or nature.
-
Can Set up its own rain or work with Politoed to make it a fast sweeper
-
Weird, but good typing gives it few common weaknesses
-
Stats are pretty middling, only one that hits 100 is Special Defense, and it can’t boost its offenses
-
Has to evolve weirdly late to get all its moves. Lotad needs to evolve at 30 to get Giga Drain and Rain Dance, and Lombre at 44 for Hydro Pump.
Butterfree/Vivilon?
-
Butterfree is a potent win-con sweeper that can hit basically everything for Neutral with its Ability
-
First things first. Run Tinted Lens, it’s what makes Butterfree viable at all, The Accuracy isn’t worth more than matchup consistency
-
Butterfree’s claim to fame is Quiver Dance, which is often considered top 3 setup moves in the game, arguably the best.
-
Tinted lens lets Butterfree’s STABs hit everything for neutral. Hurricane Butterfree is currently not available, and might not be for a while if ever (It’s TR dependent in gen 8)
-
90/70 would be pretty bad, but one QD lets it shift matchups, especially on the special side
-
Sleep Powder is great at filling out the last slot, potentially letting it set 1-3 Quiver Dances
-
Bug/Flying is lol defensively, and 60/50/80 is super trash defenses
-
70 Speed is quite slow for what it wants to do. Butterfree either has to outspeed a mon, or facetank and land sleep in order to set up, usually you need more than 1 turn of setup, depending on the Trainer
-
Pretty bad at going through routes as it’s offensive presence is defined by QD
-
Almost laughably bad before getting Relevant STABS and QD
-
Quiver Dance at 47 requires 2 Rare Candies before Tristan, which I think is both of the one’s you have if you complete all the quests (Including the one that asks for a rare candy)
-
Basically all the above applies to Vivillon as well, who has the same availability with some diffs.
-
Vivillon is faster at base 89/ with better Physical bulk at 80/50 but considerably worse special bulk, even at +1 with 80/50. Hurricane is more damage than Air Slash by like 40 points, but with far more bad matchups because of no Tinted Lens. It’s considerably worse IMO, especially with no Sleep Powder before Blackview
-
Sleep Powder is RNG. The chance that you hit (assuming you outspeed, and get off 1 QD is a tiny bit over 50%
B-Tier
SpoilerScolipede?+
-
Very Much a feast or famine Pokemon
-
Speed boost is Speed boost, it’s a great ability
-
Natural Baton Pass means it can pass its boost and help slower team mates sweep or outspeed fast boss threats like Tristan’s Lopunny and Emily’s Manectric
-
112 Base speed is already fast before the boost, circumventing on of Blaziken’s core problems.
-
Iron Defense and even agility let it pass even more boosts.
-
Scolipede has a pretty terrible earlygame, and takes a while for it to ramp up
-
60/80/60 Bulk isn’t great at all. Luckily Iron Defense can put in work against physical threats, but it’ll fold to special.
-
Scolipede’s movepool is ass. Bug/Poison is pretty mediocre offensively, and it doesn’t even get a good Poison move as of now. It can Toxic stall kinda well I guess, but that’s not really reliable in actually important fights.
-
Somehow has 4MSS. Baton Pass + Protect/Iron defense is already 2 slots, and it basically needs Megahorn if you want to carry the big lug through routes, so It has to choose between Return/Double-edge, Toxic, or the second set up move.
-
Hard to sweep with its movepool and poor coverage
-
Scolipede Right now is really to be used more supportively, enabling stronger teammates to sweep, cuz he ain’t cutting the mustard right now
-
Scolipede still has longer term potential, but it’s not likely things like Swords Dance and EQ are coming quickly down the pipe.
Toxicroak
-
Croak’s claim to fame is its great early moveset and mayyyybe its availability
-
Coming with Low Kick and Ice punch is nothing to sneeze at. Those are great the whole game, though Low Kick starts out kinda weak fighting NFE mons.
-
Pretty neat Level up Movepool with Poison Jab and Sucker Punch coming to accentuate its early moves.
-
Good abilities in Poison Touch or Dry Skin.
-
Croagunk is kinda terrible early on. It’s stats are terrible and it doesn’t do much to bosses, Good luck doing anything against Aderyn, Maybe it can beat Gligar if you evolve it before, but probably not
-
It’s stats are pretty middling, 106/85/86 isn’t winning any awards these days, and its defenses are quite bad at 83/65/65
-
Overall Croak is good, not great at the moment. Maybe Cedric will give us its Mega one day, so wait and hope Toady!
Pyroar?+
-
Pyroar is kind of middling imo, but it does hold a niche in its Normal STAB
-
Pyroar has good offenses at 109/106, and its STAB moves are pretty spammable and work surprisingly well together
-
Good STAB choices in Echoed Voice, Flamethrower, Hyper Voice, and Overheat/Hyper Beam for nuking.
-
Noble Roar is good early on and is decent, being a rare SPAtk dropping move
-
It’s abilities are weird. They generally favor physical movesets but Pyroar is working with 65 Atk, which is terrible even with boosts. So it’s ability slot is more often than not dead, as Unnerve rarely activates.
-
Pyroar’s bulk is pretty bad, with 86/72/66 leaving it pretty frail
-
Pyroar really only gets Normal and Fire Moves, which is pretty serviceable, but is incredibly vanilla.
Gogoat?+
-
Gogoat is a surprisingly decent Beach Bum, being one of the more solid picks imo
-
Great level up movepool. Probably one of the most self sufficient actually. It gets good STAB quickly, a set up move in bulk up, Coverage (Earthquake, Babyyy!), and utility/sustain options. It’s usually gonna run something like Horn Leech/EQ/Bulk Up/Healing Move which is really useful in a variety of battles.
-
Gogoat has pretty good stats all around, but they’re kinda weird. It’s bulk is 123/62/81 which is pretty good, but it kinda needs investment/setup to really tank. Gogoat does this job pretty well regardless, but it’s something to keep in mind
-
100/97/61 Offenses are pretty good sans the speed, but you’re never going to go Special Gogoat on account of most of its available moves are physical, so he’s going to be slow, which can be annoying when trying to set up.
-
Gogoat is notably hampered by how terrible Grass types have it in the earlygame, and how ubiquitous Grass types are, even early, if opportunity cost bothers you. I don’t really factor it in that much, but it’s something to consider if you like to plan teams ahead.
-
Overall Gogoat is really solid right now and is probably in the top 3 beach bums for me, but past Duskdog, the balance does even out more in that regard
Venusaur
-
Ah, Venasuar… what a classic
-
Venasaur is a solid Grass Starter, though it is a Grass Starter, so the problem inherent to that are there
-
Venasaur is pretty jack of all-trades. 82/100/80 offenses are pretty nice and 80/83/100 defenses are also pretty decent.
-
Pretty decent movepool. Good mix of utility and damage moves. On the utility side, you got moves like Sleep Powder and Leech Seed, and on the offensive side, Petal Dance/Grass Knot and Hidden Power and Sludge Bomb TM are nice. Growth is pretty decent early and really good if you get Sun up
-
Can be played tanky, vanilla or Mega, or offensive thanks to Chloryphyll. Of course you need, Sun for the latter.
-
It’s Mega is available, albeit condiitonally, just don’t be a dick to Ava and you’ll be fine.
-
It’s Grass, earlygame is not great.
-
4MSS, has pretty decent set options, but has to commit to a build.
Manectric
-
Manectric is a solid option starter wise, but has some glaring flaws that knock it as of V5
-
Manectric is basically early mono-Electric archetype to a fault.
-
Let’s get the elephant out of the room and say that Manectric absolutely crushes Aderyn, especially if you get one with HP Ice, and can trivialize probably the hardest battle earlygame and arguably period right now
-
Discharge at level 30 is really good, letting it hit pretty hard with 30% paralysis
-
105/105 offenses are really good for when it evolves and lets it keep up for the most part
-
It’s the only Beach Bum atm with a mega if that appeals to you. ATM at least
-
On that note, I do like MegaMane having intimidate because Intimidate stacks well if you have something like Incineroar. It can really debilitate physical threats. Though keep in mind that Megas come really lategame as of V5, but hold promise in future versions.
-
Manectric has awful defenses at 70/60/60, and Electric has pretty rare resistances so it’s not going to take hits well at all.
-
It’s offenses are good, but they aren’t exactly enough to Glass cannon like Darm does and it lacks the versatility that Gren and Ambipom would have
-
Manectric’s movepool is really bare. It’s claim to fame is having strong Fire Coverage, which is non-existent ATM. It really just spams Discharge, and maybe Hidden Power and can get walled a lot because of its limited moves
-
One other thing that is weird about Manectric is that it’s the only beach bum with a slow EXP growth curve, which means it kind lags in levels during the Kuiki arc. This can be annoying because that Arc often feels like a solo run up to Shiv, and Manectric can’t really do Jack to grass types like Shiv’s Roselia. It’s a minor note, but it can make the beginning a bit more frustrating.
Electivire
-
Electabuzz is essentially your life-insurance against Aderyn
-
Getting Trade Exp boost is always a nice bonus
-
Elekid’s line is one of the few mono electric’s that pack good coverage, with Low kick initially, and Fire Punch as Tutoring once fully evolved.
-
Has some pretty good utility with Light Screen, Screech, and Thunder Wave too.
-
Electabuzz (and I do mean Electabuzz) is pretty fast sitting at 105 Speed and 95 SPAtk is nothing to scoff at this stage.
-
Electabuzz and Electivire are both pretty frail, clocking in at 65/57/85 and 75/67/85 respectively.
-
Electivire is kinda infamous for losing 10 speed when it evolves as well, which is a pretty big deal going from 105 to 95
-
Electivire honestly might not be worth evolving if you’re strapped for link stones as it goes straight to its Attack stat which it almost never uses pre evolution, not to mention the EV/nature distribution problem that comes with such mismatched stats.
-
Overall Electivire is like a decent sidegrade to standard Electric Types like Raichu and Manectric, solving some problems, while getting a new set of unique problems to deal with.
Magmortar
-
Magmortar is Electivire’s eternal rival, so much so that they completely forgot about Jynx and went and evolved without her. Rather mean of them, to be honest
-
Magmortar serves as a good, albeit standard Fire-Type
-
Magby comes pretty early in the old Ranger room in Vejyr and evolves soon after
-
Magmar has good stab options with flame burst early, and upgrading to Lava Plume to Flamethrower to even Fire Blast at a good pace.
-
105/95 offenses as Magmar are pretty good, and becomes 125/85 after it evolves
-
Bet you noticed the speed reduction, though. This is again annoying, but isn’t as tragic as Electivire, especially since Magmortar actually can use the big damage upgrade.
-
Good utility with moves like Confuse Ray and Smokescreen if you like RNG cheese. It’s Pokemon. Everything is RNG cheese
-
Fire Typing is pretty good field effect wise, getting boosts from Grass field against grounded mons, and Magmar can set forests and grassland alike on fire.
-
Magmar is equally frail as Electabuzz at 65/57/85 and not much better than Electivire at 75/67/95. This isn’t helped at all by its middling speed either
-
Magmar really doesn’t get anything in the way of coverage atm. It’s all Fire, all the time. Expect it to not preform well when counter-typed
-
Magmarizer either comes really late or forces you to cough up 30 credits, neither of which are ideal. It’s about as greedy as Garrett, but at least it pays you back (Seriously Garrett better be paying rent for locking us out of our basement or there are gonna be problem problems. )
-
Magmortar performs well at what it does, but it really only does that one thing well and not exceptionally well. There will be better Pokemon available in the future, but Magmar is a good filler Pokemon or permanent one for what it can do in the earlygame
Bewear
-
Tanky Attacker with pretty nice Bulk and Offenses
-
125/60 Physical offenses is heavy. It’ll probably go last, but it claps back
-
120/80/60 Defenses is pretty nice with the big HP and Fluffy Doubles is physical defense against most physical moves (not all). Watch out for the new Fire Weakness
-
Normal/Fighting STAB is pretty great With Return and Hammer Arm being a great go too. Payback/Shadow Claw for coverage rounds out
-
Pain Split is some fun jank healing
-
Ready for Tristan and can tank almost everything Lop throws out
-
Hammer Arm can’t really OHKO as reliably as Yama’s CC if you care about that
-
5% Chance North of Addenfall means it can’t be gotten quite as easily as Yama, but it’s better long-term as of V5 imo
Scrafty (Don’t buy the credits one!)
-
Scrafty’s a neat bulky attacker
-
It’s got deceptively great defenses at 65/115/115
-
Great abilities in Intimidate and Moxie, each one letting it play differently. (Shed Skin’s alright)
-
HJK + Crunch is pretty great STAB combo that isn’t resisted by anything
-
58 Spd is pretty damn slow, so it won’t be outpacing much
-
90 base attack is only alright without boosts, and I don’t think it gets easy acces to D-Dance like in Reborn. It has to rely on Moxie, which does not synergize with its speed
-
Really bad Fairy weakness to be afraid of
-
Not much in the way of coverage/utility
Gigalith (Sand Stream)
-
Super Tanky Rock-Type
-
Absurdly Tanky. Especially with Sand Steam. Before EVS and the such, that’s effectively 85/130/120
-
Has hefty 135 Atk
-
Sand Stream has surprising synergy with Sand Rush mons like Stoutland, Sandslash, and Worse!Lycanroc
-
Stealth Rock is a rare utility in Deso that, while not as important in-game, is useful to have to help sweepers, especially with breaking sash.
-
Really only has Rock and Normal for offensive coverage.
-
25 Spd is lol, though the bulk on this bad boy means you won’t miss it much
-
Really shallow movepool in general, aside from moves listed above. I think I used Mud-Slap as a 4th for the hell of it.
-
Shines with the Sand Stream ability, and kinda niche if nothing is there to abuse said sand
-
Excadrill + Gigalith ready for V6 BABEEEEY!
Froslass
-
Huh. A lvl 45 Frosslass. Guess I’ll add it to my team.
-
Pretty decent utility mon
-
Pretty fast at 110 speed
-
Good utility moves out the gate with Confuse Ray, Will’ o Wisp, and even Captivate can be useful at times. Destiny Bond at 59 is always lol
-
Requires literally no grinding to be useful when it comes. It’s hilariously at the lvl cap, and you deserve it for trudging through all that snow.
-
Pretty frail with 70/70/70 across the board. It isn’t gonna be taking hits well
-
Pretty wimpy with 80/80 offenses. It’s not going to be hitting hard, like, ever.
-
Blizzard missed again…
-
Froslass is good at what it does, and average everywhere else. But it’s pretty easy to get and requires little effort to slot into teams, so it’s pretty good imo
Togekiss?+
-
it USED to be a nutty Nasty Plot Sweeper until Posty took it away… (as of 5.1 I think)
-
Pretty good utility mon all things considered
-
Gets hella utility moves. U want it? U got it! Charm/Yawn/Wish/Encore are all great picks
-
This is one Chunky Bird. 85/95/115 is great bulk
-
120 Sp.Atk is great for hitting hard.
-
80 Speed is pretty great for such a well-rounded Pokemon
-
Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Grass Knot, and Dazzling Gleam are well-rounded coverage offensively
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4MSS is pretty apparent here. That’s tough
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Super Luck and Serene Grace are both great. Hustle is worthless here.
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Comes pretty late, and at Lvl 1.
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Pretty late to start up and credit hungry for move tutor
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Pretty neat all-arounder that can cover different roles
Clefable
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Used to be dummy beefy Calm Mind Sweeper until that got taken away. THANKS POSTY!
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Clefable is a pretty decent, albeit nondescript all-arounder.
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95/73/90 isn’t amazing bulk, but Clef makes it work.
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95 Sp.Atk is alright, nothing to write home about, but alright
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Good utility moves in Sing, Uh… Gravity?
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Has decent offensive options with things like Moonblast and Grass knot
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Moonlight, Minimize, and Cosmic Power are good defensive options
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Has a pretty memey Stored Power set with SP/Minimize/Cosmic Power/-Flex- Which is a cheesy set that is really slow and inconsistent to start up, though it’s fun
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Comes at lvl 1 and at an opportunity cost. Togekiss seems like a straight up-grade in most aspects
Pelipper (25 Credits)
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Basically a straight upgrade from Politoed, that comes late at Cellia Docks and costs a hefty amount of creditss
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(S)he be making it rain on you with Drizzle fo shizzle (I’m done)
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Rain has pretty diverse team synergy
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Gets moves like Hydro Pump/Surf and Hurricane, which have stupid synergy with it’s kit
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95 Sp.ATk is just enough to enable its crazy powerful STABS to go crazy
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60/100/70 is pretty decent bulk
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65 Spd is pretty slow however
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Politoed is perfectly serviceable for Rain cores, and doesn’t cost 25 credits, and has near perfect availability
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A pretty good, albeit expensive mon, even out of its niche
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Premier Screen Setter. That’s all it should do
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Prankster lets it set up screens with priority!
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Comes at too high a level to get light screen without Relearner
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Listen, Meowstic sets up screens, That’s all it does well.
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None of its stats matter, it’s bulk is 74/76/81
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Meowstic can be slotted anytime, even underlevelled just to set up screens or maybe weather.
Charizard
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Charizard is a decent starter pick that is kinda held back by its movepool
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Charmander is famous for getting Dragon Rage early, which often trivializes earlygame by 2 shotting basically everything
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Stat wise 84/109/100 offenses are pretty good, it much prefers is special moves in this form
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78/78/85 defenses is basically just squeezing past frail and into mediocrity
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Charizard’s movepool is really standard Fire stuff. It gets all it would really want STAB wise, but kinda lacks in relevant coverage
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It has coverage options, they’re mostly physical though, which can be pretty annoying, but not unmanageable.
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Fire in general seems really good in Deso, being relevant in a surprising amount of boss fights (Tristan and Amelia come to mind)
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Dragon Rage does not see as much use in Deso past Vejyr because of how fast things scale.
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Anyone ever notice that Shiv looks like that one guy who bodied Ash Gren? He even has the Charizard. Haha... or is it!?
Ninetales(31 Credits)
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Here’s your sun-setter… over ⅔ of the way through the current game
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Nonetheless, Ninetales is the earliest sun setter available (Torkoal’s available, but near the very end)
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Ninetales stats are pretty not great imo. 81 Sp.Atk is chump change for an attacker. 100 Speed is fast, but not really fast
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73/75/100 Defenses aren’t really good enough to specialize in. It’ll take special hits well though.
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Now sun is good, if you got the guys that benefit from it, but ate acquisition is pretty tough when compared to setters like Politoed and Gigalith
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It’s movepool is pretty decent. Fire Type with Psychic coverage is decent, and it even gets nasty plot, but it’s stats hold it back, even with +2 I feel.
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Will-O-Wisp, Confuse Ray, and Captivate are pretty nice on the utility side.
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Credits cost is high, especially since Cellia Manor is pretty demanding with Credits
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Is really only relevant with Drought. There are better Fire Types available earlier, and without such a cost sink
Torterra
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Torterra is the best Sinnoh Starter (J.K. They’re all goated)
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Torterra here is very similar to Gogoat, but with the added Ground typing, which is more a less a plus on Torterra’s punch card
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109 Attack is pretty strong, and can get boosted with Curse
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95/105/85 is pretty beefy, especially coupled with Torterra’s tank-centered movelist
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Lvl 32 Earthquake, you know what it is.
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Leech Seed and Synthesis are both amazing sustain.
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Torterra can become hilariously tanky with Curse + sustain options.
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I think the event one comes with Sneaky Pebbles? which is pretty decent utility, though I generally just recommend a weak Sturdy mon for all the times you actually need rocks.
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Grass is ass in the earlygame of Deso, this is a problem even for the best greenies
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4MSS
Hariyama
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Underrated Fighting Type that has your back against Bunnicula when you need it
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Comes with good moves and gets Close Combat @ 40/46 depending on if you evolve it early (46 needs a rare candy use if you can spare it)
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144 HP is massive enough to shore up 60/60 bulk
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All it’s abilities are quite good.
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Hella slow at 50 Spd It’s gotta eat a hit
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Can’t facetank too many hits despite its HP, it won’t really stand up to repeatedly being hit/targeted.
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Scaling into endgame, it’s largely a down-grade compared to other Fighting Types like Lucario and Conk, who’s basically a straight upgrade. Hariyama does have some important availability advantages above the others
Seismitoad
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Pretty good Water Type option
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Water/Ground is a well known great typing to have
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105/75/75 is alright, but made better by virtue of its typing
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95/85/75 offenses are middling, but they’re usable. It’ll annoyingly be using that lower Sp.Atk however
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Access to pretty decent movepool with Muddy-water/Hydro pump being great water STABS, has some good coverage options with Sludge Bomb TM and Drain Punch. Mud Shot is weak, but the Speed control is pretty nice.
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All of its abilities are decent. It can set its own rain with Rain Dance for Swift Swim, if you want. Water Absorb is a free immunity, and Poison Touch is kinda a nice added bonus at times, I guess. The other two are a lot better though.
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Really wishes it could have a better ground move
Donphan
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Ok, Why the hell is Donphan only 3’7”!?
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Donphan is a pretty potent EQ bot that comes right before Emily in Hardened Mountain
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Lvl 43 Earthquake means it gets EQ almost immediately after aquisition
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120 Atk throws out some heavy ass EQs
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90/120/60 Bulk is great physically, not so much specially. Though Sturdy does offset this a bit
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Sturdy allows it to always be able to hit back, and EQ hits back hard
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ALL IT FUCKING HAS IS EARTHQUAKE! It can get Knock Off if you want to invest credits or find catch the uncommon Pre-evo Donphan in Hardened Mountain, but that is basically the only worthwhile coverage move. Seriously, I was using Scary Face as a flex slot
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Really Slow at 50 speed
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Even at this point, there are better Ground Types like Flygon and Mamoswine
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Donphan kinda just temp jobs on most teams as a result
C-Tier
SpoilerWalrein
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Walrein is probably the most balanced of the Beach Bums stat wise, but It has a lot holding it back.
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Walrein has good bulk (110/90/90) as well as decent offensives with a 95 SpATK to ensure it isn’t gonna be passive
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Spheal has some good matchups against Connor and Aderyn, which is always a plus at that stage of the game, however the good matchups essentially end past that,
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It’s movepool is quite shallow, lackluster even. Ice moves are nice early on, but past Blizzard/Surf, it’s not getting any better.
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Having to rely on Brine and Aurora Beam for STAB until After Tristan is rough in practice
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Some good
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Walrein is held back by its typing being pretty tame,not being standout offensively or defensively for the most part. The same goes for its stats, they’re balanced, but neither side is gonna win any awards
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It’s best move from now and into the future (most likely) is gonna be Blizzard. Good ol’ inaccurate Blizzard
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Overall Walrein is solid on paper, but it’s master of none stats, it’s limited matchups, and bare bones movepool leaves it wanting compared to other options both between Beach Bums and other Water and Ice tpes
Pangoro?-
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Probably the worst Beach Bum available
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Pangoro is an incredibly middling Pokemon, being handily outclassed by most other fighting types and pandas are dumb anyways.
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To start with positives, Pangoro has a good attacking Stat (124, and Parting shot, while kind of late, is nice utility that is, more or less, exclusive to it as of now.
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All of its abilities are pretty good, allowing for flexibility In that regard.
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Crunch and Sky Uppercut are good stabs (the latter being boosted by Iron Fist a bit) and Bullet Punch gives it some much needed priority.
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Pancham’s earlygame is largely unimpressive, except for performing decently against Shiv, and is dead weight in most boss fights, especially Aderyn.
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Pangoro is slow, clocking in at a measly 58 and doesn’t have great bulk to stand against that, making do with 95/78/71
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Dark/Fighting is usually a great offensive typing, but Pangoro’s stats don’t make it work well, and exacerbate the glaring weakness to Fairy types.
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Fighting Weakness can be annoying to deal with, and can’t do as well against Tristan as other Fighting types available Losing handily to Lopunny and Wigglytuff along with Staraptor.
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Usually I try not to focus on opportunity cost, but Croagunk is free, is available within the same time frame, and doesn’t force you to choose between better options.
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This thing just stinks, maybe it should go to D for Don’t pick this thing.
Raichu?-
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Pichu tried to come and help you, but the poor thing got lost in the woods
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Available in Celeste Grove (The screen with Scarlett’s bow. It actually has a diff. encounter table)
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Raichu comes immediately after Aderyn, which is a shame given it’s like the biggest break for most Electrics that come before it
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90/90 Offenses are alright, but it comes as a Pichu, so it should have Nasty Plot
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110 Speed is pretty darn good for Plotting Nastiness (gross)
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Can do pretty well against fights like Amelia, whose team is rather susceptible to Electric/paralysis (sans Cacturne).
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Guaranteed 3 IVs is always nice
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Access to Discharge/Thunderbolt (through tutor) and Grass Knot and maybe Hidden Power make for pretty nice coverage
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Raichu’s Bulk is pretty pitiful with 60/55/80. It’s lopsided towards special defense, but it’s still bad even on that side.
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Thunderstone a ways off in an Addenfall Quest. Behind a lvl 56 Raikou. Have Fun (It’s usually not too hard)
Mightyena
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Has one cool ass Mega
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Mightyena is a regular Jobbermon that has an aforementioned Cool Mega, that lets it be cool in the current lategame
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90 Atk and 70 spd!? Gee willikers!
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70/70/60 defenses!? Wow!
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Intimidate and Moxie are actually both pretty great abilities though.
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Early on, Moxie lets it be a somewhat decent Route Cleaner up until right before Silver Rise, when it , like the Player, falls of pretty hard
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After that becomes a Intimidate Bot, with a weirdly good set of support moves like Yawn/Taunt/Swagger/Scary Face
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I should note that you can just skip dealing with it earlygame and just catch one in Dreamscape, which Is probably recommended if you only care about the Mega
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Mighty-Meg gets 125/125 physical offenses on top of Strong Jaw, which helps with coverage and STAB alike. It’s abilities pre-mega both synergize well too.
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Spiffy Ghost/Dark typing, which while redundant Offensively, lets it shake off two weaknesses
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Defenses are exactly the same though.
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Mightyena is around for all of 2 important fights, (maybe like 4 if you count sidequests) where it does decent, but not amazing
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Mightyena is far from good rn, but it is surprisingly not incompetent for all stages of the game. If you want to use this thing, knock yourself out
Quagsire?+
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Basically Seismitoad with worse stats, but better moves
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Same great typing, same great taste
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95/85/65 is alright, but considerably worse than it could be. It’s really it’s typing and moves carrying it
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85/65/35 offenses is pretty bad. It has to use both phys and special as of now which is kinda annoying
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Great utility moves in Yawn and Mist/Haze. Mist in particular is a short field change, which can be helpful at times.
Silvally
Porygon-Z
Sceptile
Blastoise
Gardevoir (30 Credits)
Gallade (30 credits)
Ampharos(12 Credits)
Shiftry (Chloryphyll)
Typhlosion?+
Feraligatr?-
Meganium?-
Samurott
Emboar?+
Chesnaught
Decidueye
Late Tier
SpoilerExcadrill
Hydreigon
Eevee
Conkeldurr
And That's what I've got so far. This is a community list, so any submissions and feedback is appreciated (you don't have to do the icon thing to post a rating).
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3
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Just finished V5 and loved it! Might do a write up later if I feel like wasting everyone's time. I tend to get pretty wordy and am probably the worst complimenter ever, so I don't know if y'all need that type of smoke.
Couple of Questions I'll put 'em in spoilers, just to be safe
- Can I get an F for my summer child Scizor? May his Bullet Punches rain on all non-believers...
- As far as Fan Megas go, are there any more planned? I remember the V4 thread having a poll or something for future ones? I know they're hard to design, and it's easy to go a little overboard with them in terms of quantity and balance, but they are quite fun.
- What is the planned scope of Desolation? Is it planned to be as big as Reborn and Rejuv, or is it going to be slightly smaller scale (Give or take story branching). For some reason I assume the latter, but I could easily be wrong.
- How far will the story branch? Getting into spoilery territory here I know, but it seems that the Climax of V5 seems like a point of no return as far as most choices have gone (Most games that involve choices generally have a point of no return like that).
- Who are Y'all fav characters? I gotta say Ava and Garrett win best Girl/Boy respectively for me. -
Good to see Caz and the bad boyz working to bring us the heralded V5!
Couple of questions
- How much has the scope of Desolation changed? Last time I played, there was a heavy emphasis on a branching story, which is an incredibly ambitious project for any game, and something Desolation did rather well, all things considered. Has it stayed mostly the same, or has the design philosophy changed in the last five years or so?
- When will the Obtainable list come out? I'm an absolute sucker for team building and over-preparing. Also have the changes made to the obtainable mons been influenced by balance, flavor, or a mix of both?
- This is in all likelyhood confidential, but what changes are you most excited about making from V4 to V5?
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1
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This mod doesn't work for WLL, which is short enough to not warrant a debug mod. To use Surf, you need to have Lapras IIRC.
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I don't really know the problem behind the corruption, though it is probably best if the Debug mod is used with a clean save file, I haven't tested if anything happens when installed later in the game. As for the HM problem, did you do anything with the badges? I've used the debug mod, and the Golden weapons can be used. Maybe you haven't gotten the golden items legitimately. There might be a switch along with the badge that allows for its use. Also I don't know what the Golden sash is.
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Y'know, in a game with forbidden magic, weird reincarnation, demonic critters, and convoluted time travel, you wouldn't expect taht the thing I'd be most confused about is the implementation of a canon mechanic.
But yes. It does.
Question's in the title, but more specifically, I want to ask what purpose do Shadow Pokemon in Rejuvenation serve (yes I've played the game) and If their implementation is really worth it. Why don't I just put that in the title you ask? Uh... that's none of your business you dag gone know-it-all
My main problem with Shadow pokemon as seen in Rejuv compared to canon material. Shadow Pokemon are the focal points of both Colosseum and XD. In Rejuv they feel like an thing implemented because it's sorta in the Essentials data. If you care about this sort of thing, The Bulbapedia article is a good place to learn a thing about Shadow pokemon. The concept is that Shadow Pokemon basically take a helpful pupper like Entei, a doggo with stopping power of a Panzer, but ethical values, and remove the emotions tocreate a super doggo tht can kill ya dead. then Cypher gets a bunch of super-critters and takes over the world n' stuff. That roughly sums up the conflict of the Game. But in Rejuv's case, Shadow Pokemon are just there. Instead of Salamence, Tyranitar, and Lugia. team Xen uses this potentially destructive technology to transmogriphy... Meowth, Finneon, and Bonsly... I guess A-Grimer's pretty spooky.
Point is, the potential of Shadow Pokemon is mostly wasted in Rejuvenation. Like, the concept was enough to run two games, which are some of my favorites in the series. But Rejuv has about 3 plot points that actually revolve around Shadow Pokemon, and the one with the most weight (The Mewtwo part) is resolved, like, immediately (Which you could say is a whole other can of worms in Rejuv's storytelling). Furthermore, the villains straight up say they don't really care about the whole project, only vaguely indicating that somehow furthers their cause. You could argue that the explanation of Rift Pokemon necessitates Shadow Pokemon, but most of the Rift stuff doesn't hinge on canon material, being mostly created solely for Rejuvenation. In that sense it could stand alone.
I'm slightly less interested in the gameplay flaws, because that's something that's a problem in how essentials implements Shadow Pokemon. If you peruse that handy-dandy Bulbapedia article, it's evident that there is a lot of depth to Shadow Pokemon, too much for me to summarize effectively. Unfortunately the the essnetials toolkit essentially(pun very intended) guts the mechanics. For starters, Shadow Pokemon are treated as a neutral type (sans-Fairy), while in the main-games, Shadow Pokemon keep their innate typings, whilst being resistant to Shadow attacks. The second problem is the implementation of the moves in general. In XD, there are a lot of Shadow moves, and bosses would use some interesting strategies using their attacks (Like using a shadow weather move + Weather Ball). In Rejuv, Shadow moves are really restricted, only really being used by Mewtwo iirc. At least to me, the implementation of Shadow mechanics are bare-bones, and don't do a service to the core games, but this is coming from an Orre fanboy, so take it as you will.
Now I know it sounds like I'm advocating for the removal of Shadow Pokemon, and that's because I kinda am. In truth, I don't think that Shadow Pokemon are used very well in fan-games in general, and Rejuv is no exception. It does little with the concept in both narrative and gameplay. Jan has said before (paraphrasing pretty hard here) that the early stages of Rejuvenation's plot aren't as indicative of the whole Game's plot, and that many instances in the early-game serve as legacy features more or less. I feel that Shadow Pokemon are probably the most telling example of this problem. I think that the most apt change to Shadow Pokemon is to just get rid of them because of how tacked-on they feel. Granted, I don't expect this. Even with Rejuv being an unfinished game, It's still a free game, and I'm not sure if the time it takes to get rid of the feature is worth it. There are commercial games that leave in concepts that probably should have hit the cutting-room floor, so I don't expect Rejuv to polish it. Though I do think that if the feature stays, Jan and Co. should incorporate it into the story more. Maybe Giratina could be a shadow Pokemon, or Silvally. Or give all Xen admins a good snagable just like in Colosseum. Hell, I don't know. Just do something for this fussy fanboy here!
But that's about it. I've written more about a dead-mechanic in a fan-game than I've done on my college assignments. So I'm gonna just leave this pedantic rant riiight over here.
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It seems that Mimikyu's disguise replenishes upon switching out, which it shouldn't do.
Also the Upgraded Pokedex crashes the game when moving to the location window
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The link should be updated according to the latest patch. Just rename the file to Scripts and replace the old one in the Data folder.
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For some reason, items like Leftovers seem to trigger twice. (I've had this happen with Keta and Venam in intense mode).
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1
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I updated the scripts for V11, It should work.
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1
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IDK if it was intentional or not, but Rockruff still doesn't have a defined evolution for Duskroc despite the latter having its stats and movesets finished.
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Looking through the code, it's evolution method doesn't seem to be defined yet, therefore, it's unobtainable without debug.
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Have fun with Persona 4! I consider it one of the best RPGs to come out of this generation. A couple tips for what I feel is full enjoyment of the game. For starters, don't follow any Max social links guides, (A system similar in concept to FE supports). At least to a T. The game is incredibly immersive, and spending time with character based on how you want.
Looking up basic dialogue guides or how to proceed with certain ranks (some require certain attribute checks shown by a chart in the status menu of the M.C.) is fine, as the game isn't very helpful in presenting this concept, and you'll soon learn that time is of essence in Persona.
Also, know what version you are playing, if you are playing on the PS2, know that there are certain things that aren't in the game compared to the Vita remaster. Specifically, certain QoL changes in the engine, some new mechanics, certain characters, and a post-game of sorts are not present in the PS2 version. Don't worry too much if you do not own a Vita, as both experiences are very good, you're just playing the older version. If you're playing the Vita version, some guides may be out of date.
MP conservation is important when Dungeon Crawling. Specifically, the M.C. tends to drain through MP because they can use multiple Personas. The game uses a sort of rock-paper-scissors system in terms of weaknesses that allows to get an extra action and increase team momentum when. Try to have a physical based Persona on your Hero. They use skills off of HP, which seems bad at first, but HP is far easier to manage when crawling/grinding than MP, and the skills are often quite good.
Don't get too caught up about fusing your favorite Personas, the game is designed around Persona's getting incrementally more powerful as you fuse and lvl up more. Also try to save before large fusion sessions, especially in the PS2 version, as there is always a variable of chance in fusions.
There's no harm in looking up fusion guides and enemy weaknesses. They often don't make too much sense at face value, and really just comes down to guesswork without prior knowledge. Also, just look up the class answers, I don't understand how you're supposed to know some of the answers. They often are tangential(what in the blue blazes are marriage numbers!) or have their basis in Japanese literature and culture, which you most likely will not know. I sure hope that Persona isn't indicative of the Japanese curriculum. At least you'll have a lot of useless, yet mildly interesting trivia under your repertoire.
Again, as it's probably the most important, play how you want to play, It's a single-player game anyway, and the experience is probably the best part of the game.
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Good luck with that.
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3 hours ago, TheClownKing said:
As someone who just started recently, I have to ask why those two aren't viable anymore? Browsing old topics for relevant pokemon for team building, I was planning to include both gardevoir and magnezone in my final teams. Are there just better options now? If so, what would they be? I didn't see an electric type mentioned in original post at all. My planned team was looking something like:
Greninja - Protean
Garchomp
Aegislash
Magnezone
Gardevoir
Volcarona
Those two are still usable (Magnezone in particular) but both those Pokemon have been moved back significantly, particularly Gardevoir. If you want a Psychic or Fairy type, there are generally better options that come earlier or at the same time. Psychic types like Alakazam, Starter Delphox, MixEgg Starmie, and even Meowstic come earlier and, thus are more helpful for the game overall. Even when it was readily obtainable, Gardevoir still faced some tough competition between other Psychic types that could also fill its role, and the choice really came down to preference at the end of the day. Magnezone is a little different as its role isn't nearly as contested as Garde/Gallade's, though there are still other options like Manectric, Galvantula, Rotom, Escavalier, and Aggron to whatever role you may want it to fill. Though looking at your team, you don't seem to mind a team assembled very late in the game.
I gotta say, I don't understand the whole talk of a "core" with Garde/Zone. They're both pretty self sufficient Pokemon, and neither really covers their mots prominent weaknesses. Couldn't the same core be used niterchangeably with many High/Tier mons like Delphox/Magnezone or Gardevoir/Excadrill? As far as I'm concerned, competitive cores aren't particularly useful ingame as the AI lacks the momentum that is evident in competitive play, and it's not like you're gonna be trapping Scizors with Magnezone often in Reborn.
Also, keep in mind that the OP is simply my subjective list, you're free to make your own and discuss each other's lists and choices.
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AFAIK, there aren't any deviations for wild held items with the exception of those who hold seeds, which hold the reborn variant of whichever seed was overwritten (no idea which goes to which). Bulbapedia, as always, is a good source.
Looking around the PBS files, it seems that Reborn circumvents the low and high variants of trees from the Johto games by, for the most part, programming identical encounter rates into both encounter tables. There are some exceptions, but they're really minor (e.x. Wormadam and Mothim are in High and Low respectively).
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3 hours ago, Azery then said:
While yes that is true, we're approaching a point where bosses are pulling out a lot of bullshit such as PULSE2 and 6v12s and such, which make it a LOT harder from personal experience for lower stat Pokemon to keep themselves affloat as much. I've not really used Gyarados but not mentioning it when it's as ludicrously powerful as it is and has a legacy of being ludicrously good(s/o to it being the answer to literally ANY problem in Reborn back in the day.)is somewhat of a disservice to a Pokemon with a history like that. Furthermore while I can appreciate the set up niches Flygon and Excadrill have and Krookodile's Moxie, Flygon from personal experience(I use this Pokemon a lot until Garchomp is available, where I'll either run both or drop it for Garchomp) is comparatively far too reliant on it and over time loses a LOT of it's damage output due to it's average at best attack stat. Given the later we go on, the harder bosses tend to hit, it starts having genuine problems comparatively to Garchomp/Excadrill/Krookodile who can keep themselves affloat due to higher initial damage. I won't even try to contest Excadrill though, that thing is ludicrously good.
At the end of the day I feel that they are strong enough that -despite- coming as late as they do they deserve a ranking on this list, if on the lower end due to their availability problems. That being said it's nice to get someone else's perspective on this stuff as there is some personal bias involved on my suggestions, especially given you've pointed out most of the standout ones at the start.
That being said, why Amoonguss/Venusaur. From experience neither were particularly good.
As for Scizor, honestly if Aegis gets ranked, so should Scizor IMO.
I agree that the fights are getting harder, but from experience, I still see Flygon as the better package when accounting obtainability and how easy it is to get to +1 on DD as well as Flygon's EQ hitting harder than Garchomp's Dig (It's strongest available Ground move). As for Venusaur and Amoonguss, Venusaur is admittedly only there because I thought the starter section needed at least 1 Grass Starter, and I'd argue Venusaur is the best because of its typing (Meteor seems to really like Bug and especially Poison) utility, and Mega. I actually do think Amoonguss is good because it has a lot of utility with Spore + Regenerator, has a surprisingly good movepool with moves like Nature Power, Giga Drain, Rage Powder (If you need some doubles support) and Foul Play to name a couple. Amoonguss avoids the trap of passive walls in-game by having a lot of moves that have good utility, movepool, a good ability (At least for Set style) to stay relevant.
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I agree with all the mons you listed, especially Krook and Escavalier. Trick Room is a pretty rare move, even with the TM, but it's really good for the whole Agate-Ametrine segment because of the sudden EV-trained enemies.
JagenKricketune is honestly why people don't really care about the earlygame's difficulty, and I'd argue is the best non-starter Pokemon for said segment, though it isn't particularly good against Corey and Shelly.The thing with Pokemon like Garchomp, Gyarados, is that they all come at the end of a game and fill similar roles to previous Pokemon available. Yes those three are nigh-unrivaled in their field sans legends, but In-game Pokemon isn't nearly as picky stat-wise as competitive. I don't think Garchomp is anywhere near as good as the utility the likes of Krookodile, Excadrill, and Flygon bring because he isn't around for many fights that the others contribute in. Excadrill is an ungodly wallbreaker (albeit locked behind RNG for the most part) who evolves early and packs some of the highest Attack ratings available. He can start stomping teams from Shelly, whereas Garchomp comes something like 12 badges later, and then comes at like level 30, so you have to grind it up to speed, which is something that a trained Flygon or Krookodile (Who is also a good rocker if needed) wouldn't have to deal with. Garchomp's roles can also be filled by Flygon and Krookodile. Gyarados faces the same problem as DD sweepers like Scrafty, Feraligatr, and the aforementioned Flygon exist and are more readily available. and I personally don't think Gyarados brings enough. I could understand Garchomp and Gyarados, being a dominant force if there was some huge strength gap between his contemporaries that a 'mon like Aegislash has, but Garchomp and Gyarados fill roles that could have been comfortably filled long before they arrived.
Scizor gets a pass, as while sweeping two endgame fights isn't really what I'd call top-tier (my Clefable did the same thing), he's second to Blaziken as a sweeper, and like you said comes at a relatively high level. Depending on how E19 goes, Scizor could be a late-game superpower as there are very little natural SD sweepers, and who knows when we'll get the SD TM.
I always seem to sleep on Typhlosion, mostly because I personally hate it, but to each his own. Typhlosion is a real good one-trick pony, I just don't think it's really worth choosing as a starter as he's really only average until it gets Eruption Typhlosion can certainly run through Charlotte, but I'm not too sure about post E17 Blake, as he has a lot of Fire-Resists now (I think Starmie, Gyarados, and TF Walrein) and half his team is above base 100 spd (Weavile, Starmie, Slushslash). Other than that, he's really good at double battles, and has pretty good coverage thanks to Nature Power and possibly Extrasensory.
2 hours ago, Wolfox said:Obligatory Magnevoircore mention here
Those days are long gone, my friend.
(Spoilers) Rejuvenation, Sort of in Summation
in Discussions
Posted
I guess you can... chose to believe I didn't play the game. I have. I even Beta Tested it! My bag got eaten, man. Eaten! Look now I gotta defend my internet honor because of your harsh, inflammatory statements!
I guess for the first two
I guess for the first two. I don't know what Team Xen's motivations are because they are neither told to us or unified through the action. Maybe I'm just dumb. But that thought makes me sad, so I'll just try and reason through it.
Team Xen has 2 objectives I can think about. 1. Get Melia. This seems to be their primary goal until it fails. The prevailing theory is that Madame X is a Theolia, if not just an evil Melia, and has lost her Super Saiyan powers through something. I think V13 says that the bad guys more or less win if they get any of the blondies. The problems arise with this in that they are really, really bad at this wincon. If they really need Melia, or anybody. Why not send the deathwings: the guys that kidnapped an entire town of people? The Deathwings definitely could've stomped almost everybody on Terajuma. The only real threat is Tesla, and even Madelis figured out how to neutralize her via a hostage. 2 They kinda do want to destroy, or at least inflict damage upon the world. They ruined Carotos Mountain, The Xenpurgis is literally made to kill an entire population of a city. Madame X is in some form of partnership with the Clear and Kieran, who literally have said they want the world destroyed. I'll give you the game doesn't make it clear at all, but that's literally my main issue with it. Making thing's clear is the games job, not mine. If you want people to understand your story, make it understandable. I clocked at least 100 hours into V13, why should I have to play the game again to make things more clear. Is that not a flaw in the story?
2. I don't really think those are super personal reasons. Those are like utilitarian reasons. What I want is motivation. Aelita has personal motivation. She wants to discover herself initially, but she also wants to know more about her family, she wants to become Sensei despite the obstacles, she wants to beat the tar out of Clear. Those are all personal, unique to her. That drive is what makes her develop and special as a character. Solving all the crazy shit that happens is basically the plot to everything ever. It's not personal enough to make it super unique. It can get the job done, but shouldn't we want more? It's perfectly fine if you don't think it's as big of an issue, we've already acknolwedged that it is an issue. I personally think its a knock on the game
Again, I do think that having an aspect of a story is stupid? It's fun, yes but it's a lot of hard work. To put in perspective. The highest grossing movie of all time tackles time travel. Endgame probably has legions of people on quality control and actual paid worktime was put into developing that time travel seamlessly. Even they goofed it up! Time Travel is really, really hard to stick the landing on, but it is fun! That doesn't mean it absolves it of the inherent problems that happen when it is just never explained. If everything we do changes Time Travel, why doesn't Anju recognize us that one time? One a bigger scale, why doesn't the timeline change drastically every time we do it. Cutting down a sapling changes an entire ecosystem. I'd imagine interacting with a younger Nastasia would at least do something! If time is that alterable, Couldn't the heroes or the bad guys just try and nip the problem in the bud? If doing something like killing Gardevoir did little, what happened in the original timeline?
Can I ask what is so perfect about the parallel universes? I'll try to be open minded given it just got introduced. But I'm also skeptical because it was introduced so late. Rejuv has too much myster IMO, there's more to a story than mysteries. Even mysteries answer questions. There are still dozens of mysteries that we don't know about. Doesn't the existence of a parallel universe kinda break the concept of an Interceptor, at least a bit? I thought that there was a system of fate that they were immune to. Parallel universes and fatalism don't mix because the former's existence implies free will is basically infinite. Would the universal reset bring the resetter to the literal beginning of time? If it happened once, how would we even know that? I'm sure some of these questions are going to be answered, but I also feel pretty justified in being tenuous about the whole thing.
What's wrong about it, I voiced my opinion on it based on my experiences. I'm fine disagreeing because I really don't think Melia is very interesting or well integrated. But if you think the stuff is perfect, but can't substantiate any reasons. That's on you, my sharp-tongued compadre. I also don't deny that effort didn't go into these characters. I just don't think that effort has paid off. I don't think we're getting anything close to good developed characters in my eyes. These guys aren't exactly the Elric Brothers, or even Cheren and Bianca for Pokemon references. I feel the development of these characters so much stronger because I feel their flaws and desires for something more so much better than I do Melia. There are efforts to develop Melia, I just don't think they ever really hit the mark. As a result, I still think they're bad characters
See even with that, you're still looking at least a dozen characters, not counting any antagonists. That's still honestly too many to work. Most animes and JRPGs tend to do like 4-8, and even then you can still have a couple duds. I think that among the main cast, the stuff is spread too thin, and then you have the 80 side characters to address, sapping even more time and resources away from the main characters. If the rest of the characters are useless. Why even have them? Probably every big story has had to cut or downplay the role of certain characters. I would genuinely be surprised if there was anything on the cutting-room floor for Rejuv.
I am! And I will!. I think the villains are generally pretty bad. Angie/Indriad is actually one of the worst just because the game always hypes them up, only for them to fail. They are definitely similar characters. They're all pretty overconfident, vindictive, and enjoy inflicting harm onto others. That fits Melanie and Angie to a T. They're not exactly the same. Madelis is a goofy clown, for example, and Melanie manages to actually be entertaining because I actually know her motivations! I'll give you I was confused about Crescent. There's no doubt that she was likely a villain until somewhat recently. She is now moreso a grumpy good guy. Her
Again, I'm not going to try and quash your opinion, but I'll defend mind. I really don't think characters are used effectively. I don't think foreshadowing is something that's necessarily praiseworthy. It's like praising shot-focus in a movie, or sound quality in a song. It's one of those things you'd hope would be in the story. Can you imagine if there was no foreshadowing in Rejuvenation!? I think my brain almost hemorrhaged... I also don't think V13 was super original. Doesn't the second part of the Intro in Rejuvenation both feature a death cult that worships a god? That whole high school bit felt like a really budgeted version of like Persona or DangleRonple. I think the Interceptor bit is kinda interesting in a meta sense, but I think the archetype could be replaced by any sort special good guy power in any RPG. I think it's fair to disagree, don't know why you're so upset though. I'm interesting in what makes this game so interesting in the eyes of other people. Pejorative posts like this make me decidedly less interested in what they have to say, but it takes all kinds.