Kimiko

[Sp.def tank] Ampharos (F) @ [leftovers] Trait: Static] EVs: [132 Hp, 126 Defense, 252 Sp.atk] [Bold or Modest] Nature - Charge - Thunderbolt - HP Grass - Focus blast [Basically Sp.def boosting powers with charge as well as doubled damage with T-Bolt which makes it a nice sp.def tank after 1 or 2 since it has natural bulk to begin with. Focus blast for all steel types, especially Electric Steel. As well as anything rock typed and fighting. HP grass for all ground and rock, especially anything Rock/ground or water/ground]

[Speedy Poison] [Species Name] (M/F) @ [Toxic Orb] Trait: [Quick Feet] EVs: [252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP] [Adamant] Nature - Facade - Close Combat - Ice Punch - Crunch [Come in if you can force a switch great if not on a move you know you can take Toxic orb goes up and bam sweeping time.]

[Sweeper] [Species Name] (M/F) @ [lefties] Trait: [Pressure] EVs: [252 Speed, 252 Sp.atk, 6 HP] [Timid] Nature - Nasty Plot - Psychic - Aura Sphere - Thunderbolt [Basic special sweeper mew. ....Psychic for all Poison and such, as well as basic and only stab Aura Sphere for Rock, Dark, Normal, Steel, to KO T-Tar and such T-Bolt for Water, Flying, and something that might happen to resist the two other moves above.]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/baby_blue999/62b7d35d96022_flip-2.png[/img]

[quote name='Falkner' timestamp='1310839184' post='17995'] Wouldn't tickle work better to lower attack and defense? [/quote] Tickle drops 1 each, charm drops it 2 stages. Plus you're a special attacker while psycho shock does hit phys defense, it's mainly there for things like blis/chancey.

[Annoyance] [Gothitelle] (M/F) @ [leftovers] Trait: [shadow tag] EVs: [252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp.atk Or 252 HP, 132 Def, and 126 Sp.atk] [Nature] bold - Calm Mind - Charm - Psyshock - Thunderbolt/HP Fighting [Basically, an evil revenge killer of sorts bring it in on something you know it can live and with 1st set of EV's have 306 Defense not to hard to do and Charm it till it's at -6, which it will be doing jack by then. Start setting up some CM's and then kill things.]

Mastershaper: Well thank you for the post, and I try to at least have some number base on the side to know what the over all statistics maybe for a given point. You mention 2 points, but that's not the ideal basis I have seeing shandy. See you looked at it nicely but narrowed the scope just a tid bit, and from that you lost the 3rd point in that series or the one I would see as the 3rd point. Shandy is a revenge killer, say it took out a pokemon one you figure eh alright it's down. But what...If that pokemon was your one way of stopping something else on their team and you didn't realize it till it was to late. As I pointed out it's about Punching holes for others to exploit, by taking down something you may not known of being needed to them it was and they can play that game with out it being a problem now. Leading to kills and a possible win for them because of it. Priority is a nice thing, it can be very deadly if used in the right situations, but in the Shandera situation...Priority really doesn't mean much. Priority Attacks. Quick Attack = Immune to it. Extreme Speed = Immune to it. Mach Punch = Immune to it. Vacuum wave = Immune to it. Sucker Punch = Weak against it, but limited user base and thus easily foreseen. Dugtrio, well a halfway experienced player wouldn't bring it in on dug as that's a basic staple move for dugtrio. Toxicroak, Same issue as above they don't run them with out it really as that's one way they are even remotely able to deal with things such as Espeon or Gengar, and etc. Conkeldurr, Timid nature overheat does vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Roobushin : 85% - 100.2% (possible OHKO with SR) Meaning 252 HP conkeldurr, running modest instead of that you'll get a OHKO. Gallade/dusknoir/shedinja with Shadow Sneak (limited usage, but respectable nonetheless). Now these ones, they don't always pack it...But that would be a risk play Gallade would be the large one to worry about over all... Duskinor if you pack a toxic heal gliscor that can be your ace in the hole against him or anyone else. Shed, boy I haven't seen him in a long time but most standard sets run, S-Dance, Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, X-Scissor. Which means you wouldn't be wise to bring it against him, and as you mentioned SR being Shandy limiter, well same applies here, same with weather. [quote]Even a cacturne, shiftry, or bisharp could rip chandelure a new one (again, they are uncommon, but shiftry seems to be a tad popular in sun teams of late, at least on PO and the PBC. Cacturne has appeared in sand quite a bit, too).[/quote] Ah Cacturne one of my friends and my own favorite grass type pokemon, it's also dark type, slow and known for sucker punch. Wouldn't bring it against it. Bisharp is the same slow, and known for sucker punch. Shiftry is dark type but most may not know it has sucker punch, but you normally run them in sun teams anyway. You say it's risky...But depending on what team-mates it has it may not be all that risky, if you can build one up right knowing what it's majority weak to and work around that aspect...You can make sure even that switch wont mean a massive hurt, unless something like a crit were to appear. The human element works on both ways it can be hurtful or it can make shandy a massive force of crippling power. Bullet [quote]The number of Pokemon that can truly kill it reliably are incredibly slim. Pursuit users, Dugtrio, and uhhh. That's it, really.[/quote] Pursuit, I'll give you that it is a way to rid your self of shandera, but out of the 1st 25 top rated on the server while that data isn't conclusive to real time use but for lack of better options using it here. Out of that top 25, 2 pokemon have pursuit and can use it effectively in their move sets. One of which isn't a threat, simply because it has a MASSIVE weakness to one it's stab and that means it may not get it the 1st time around allowing for 2 KO's. Which is 1/3 of your team, may seem like not much but that can mean the game. Because a -2 Overheat will still OHKO scizor, in fact a -6 Overheat will still OHKO scizor. While you have a 3/4 shot at getting it on one of those moves it's still kinda iffy because if you do go in on overheat it may have SR damage on it...Thinking that a BP may scare it out because of a possible chance for kill and go pursuit....Well...It might cost you. It's plausible and workable with scizor but it's also got risk factor. The only other option used viably in OU with pursuit is T-Tar, which case this would be the one solid 100% check for it if you're running pursuit tar. It's not a bad set though people may not want to run it just because.... But that takes us to, having to have something on a team to able to stand on an average footing. Meaning if you don't have it, you're already out the door bad because of it. I've noticed that it's mentioned well the regulars don't have a problem, that's nice...But new people are who become regulars possibly, giving them a sub level of merit is kinda iffy, they may not have this set put up or run a rain team which may lead to them being out a lot more then someone who was forced to adapt solely because Shandera is running around. Dugtrio, Does arena Trap and shadow tag cancel out? If so then it's just a switch out if not then you finally have a revenge for Shandy works depending on it's set and so forth. Stealth Rocks/Spikes are a big power limiter for him, I believe it's 4 or 5 entries after SR is up, which then allows Priority stab or non stab to possibly take effect if they have it and it works against him. But as you mentioned it's not exactly always going to be there with spinners and etc. Also you are right the actual % usage isn't listed so you can't 100% see, but a smaller option could be to have a poll up on who uses shandera on their teams. It wont be 100% again but it can get a basic general idea of what might be actually like. As well Kudos to you for being the post so far with the most backing to it in a manor of speaking. Neo Really now? Since when was I complaining? If I recall correctly I'm Debating a valid point on which should something be banned or not. As well I refer you to my comment in the reply to Bullets post, me being a non reg means little, in fact it puts me in a better spot to actually see how little you would use these ones brought up so far against it, anywhere else because they are the one things for it. With out them the game changes. No one had an issue? Well if not one had an issue I'd be the 1st thread on here period about Shandera and from replies to this it seems I am not, which thus says there has been some. As well there are people who are for banning it and some who are neutral, and of course those who are against it. So you're also saying that because it's been in there so long, you've had to make team that have counters for it solely based because it exists and has it's ability as well as potential to rape portions of teams allowing an easy win for the said person? Because that sounds like grounds for being a little broken. As for it stance...One person can change the world...We have seen this plenty of times in history, so what does me being one person have to do with it? If my numbers and data are correct? Owen Well I like the simplicity of your post, and it's direct to the point catch. But I have to reply with basically just this, What else would be banned? Nothing else really poses a broken threat. The only thing that smogon currently does different would be drizzle and swift swim. Banning one pokemon doesn't exactly make anyone think they can get more, in fact if shandy got banned I think it would open the play up a little more if anything and you'd see more things expand. But I don't really see a call for something to be banned beyond this one. As for U-Turn and Volt Switch, Yes they do work so does baton pass...Issue with them is you HAVE to be faster for them to work. Winter I'm not calling for you do be smogon, nor do I want it to be smogon. I'm just calling for a review and possible ban of a single pokemon based on actual number merit as well as usage and the abilities it has set forth for it by centralizing it's self. Dragonz Well thank you, for the open mindedness that comes with wanting to see what people have to say to various subjects

Well as I said recreation of my post, had to work with what I could remember if you'd like to chime in on exactly what you might like to call a viable definition for a counter then I'll put that instead. As well while you have given a few examples of things that work around the un-ability to switch, you didn't give counters to it. You gave possible checks. will never win you games single-handedly, but he punches large holes in teams that his 5 compadres can easily exploit. That's the key factor of Shandy, I never said it can win one alone that's not it's job, it's job is to make holes and deal with something you may not have been able to take normally. As well I'll also give it does over centralize things as you have to have X and Y for it, while it's not enough for it alone to banned it does give it cause to look at it heavily. Something to note as well not counting shandy it's self out of the top 20 OU's left he is strong against. 12 He can hit super effectively, out of the 20, as well. Giving a tad bit of prior damage most he can KO on his own, adding into that factor of usability. The biggest check is still rain, but if it takes an entire style of play to beat out one poke that's a bit much. As well shandy can be used in Sun and Sand Teams, which allow for rain to not be to much of an issue. Side note data here, forgot...I had some numbers stashed away on a flash drive about this XD Anyway the difference from those above and these this is timid meaning loss of power, which some of those which don't KO might KO if you run Modest. But yeah....It's helpful to see damage from it really. [spoiler]252 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera Overheat vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera : 51.5% - 60.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Nattorei : 192% - 226.1% (OHKO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Roobushin : 85% - 100.2% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/0 Timid Choice Scarf Ditto : 147.3% - 174% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Doryuuzu : 194.5% - 229.3% (OHKO) vs. 40/0 Adamant Leftovers Blaziken : 53.1% - 62.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar : 36% - 42.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Politoed : 24.2% - 28.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Breloom : 286.3% - 337.4% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Jarooda : 177.4% - 209.6% (OHKO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Espeon : 95.2% - 112.2% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Garchomp : 39.7% - 46.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 21.9% - 26% (doesn't KO) vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 347.5% - 410.5% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Urugamosu : 76% - 89.7% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Sazandora : 41.4% - 48.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Calm Leftovers Burungeru : 21.3% - 25.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 192/0 Timid Leftovers Zapdos : 73.4% - 86.4% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/0 Impish Life Orb Dragonite : 31.9% - 37.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Heatran : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Impish Leftovers Hippowdon : 76.7% - 90.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Ninetales : 42.7% - 50.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 72/0 Timid Life Orb Genosekuto : 344.2% - 406.6% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Leftovers Gyarados : 37% - 44% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Lum Berry Ononokusu : 56.3% - 66.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Focus Sash Cloyster : 191.7% - 225.6% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Starmie : 54.2% - 64.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Kerudio : 41.7% - 49.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Erufuun : 193.2% - 228.4% (OHKO) vs. 188/68 Bold Leftovers Vaporeon : 26.8% - 31.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Gengar : 119.5% - 141.2% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Zoroaaku : 143.1% - 168.7% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Borutorosu : 99.3% - 117.3% (OHKO with SR) vs. 252/4 Hardy Leftovers Forretress : 421.5% - 496% (OHKO) vs. Naive Life Orb Salamence : 49.8% - 58.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Randorosu : 93.1% - 110% (OHKO with SR) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Skarmory : 198.2% - 234.1% (OHKO) vs. 252/0 Jolly Toxic Orb Gliscor : 88.4% - 104.5% (OHKO with SR) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Zuruzukin : 48.5% - 57.5% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Infernape : 56.3% - 66.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 26.9% - 31.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Quiet Life Orb Rankurusu : 67.2% - 79.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Latios : 37.7% - 44.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Bold Porygon2 : 61% - 71.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 244/0 Adamant Occa Berry Metagross : 74.9% - 88.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Careful Leftovers Jirachi : 98.5% - 116.3% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Modest Life Orb Ludicolo : 81.5% - 96.7% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/136 Calm Leftovers Tentacruel : 23.6% - 28% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 234.8% - 277.3% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Kojondo : 137.9% - 162.5% (OHKO) vs. 128/0 Adamant Leftovers Machamp : 80.7% - 95.2% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. Modest Leftovers Suicune : 32.3% - 37.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 240/52 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 31.7% - 37.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Naughty Life Orb Venusaur : 183.4% - 215.9% (OHKO) vs. 252/68 Bold Leftovers Togekiss : 55.3% - 65.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Alakazam : 112.4% - 132.7% (OHKO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Sableye : 77% - 90.8% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Hihidaruma : 56.8% - 67% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Rotom-W : 38.5% - 45.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Focus Sash Smeargle : 148.1% - 174.2% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Band Mamoswine : 103.3% - 122.7% (OHKO) vs. Adamant Leftovers Goruggo : 93.4% - 110.3% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Terakion : 41.7% - 49.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Chansey : 33.7% - 39.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Electivire : 97.6% - 115.1% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 95.2% - 112.5% (OHKO with SR) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Abomasnow : 355.1% - 418.7% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Focus Sash Azelf : 113.4% - 133.9% (OHKO) vs. 192/0 Modest Focus Sash Deoxys-S : 93.8% - 110.4% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Arcanine : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Denchura : 266% - 313.5% (OHKO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Chirachiino : 128.9% - 151.9% (OHKO) vs. Adamant Focus Sash Weavile : 202.8% - 239.1% (OHKO) vs. 0/4 Timid Choice Scarf Charizard : 47.5% - 55.9% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Warubiaru : 99.7% - 117.8% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Kabutops : 31.3% - 37% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/120 Bold Leftovers Desukan : 65.9% - 78.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Focus Sash Aerodactyl : 51.7% - 61.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Donphan : 97.7% - 115.1% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Nidoking : 103% - 121.7% (OHKO) vs. Adamant Choice Scarf Staraptor : 138.3% - 163% (OHKO) vs. 12/0 Modest Petaya Berry Empoleon : 78.8% - 92.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Feraligatr : 46.2% - 54.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/56 Impish Leftovers Celebi : 115.8% - 136.6% (OHKO) vs. 252/96 Relaxed Leftovers Bronzong : 118.9% - 140.2% (OHKO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Slowbro : 37.6% - 44.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/100 Bold Leftovers Milotic : 23.9% - 28.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Latias : 27.2% - 32.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone : 192.2% - 226.2% (OHKO) vs. 188/216 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 17.1% - 20.3% (doesn't KO) vs. Timid Life Orb Bikutini : 36.1% - 42.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Modest Leftovers Shibirudon : 79.7% - 94.1% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Modest Choice Specs Agirudaa : 248.3% - 292.7% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Flygon : 49.3% - 58.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid BrightPowder Froslass : 235.6% - 277.6% (OHKO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Life Orb Hitmontop : 75.3% - 88.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Meloetta : 58.8% - 69.3% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Aianto : 687.9% - 812.5% (OHKO) vs. Naive Life Orb Kyuremu : 76.7% - 90.5% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross : 171.5% - 202.6% (OHKO)[/spoiler] [spoiler]252 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera Shadow Ball vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera : 119.1% - 140.5% (OHKO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Nattorei : 13.6% - 16.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Roobushin : 48.8% - 57.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Choice Scarf Ditto : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Doryuuzu : 27.9% - 32.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 40/0 Adamant Leftovers Blaziken : 61.1% - 72.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar : 20.8% - 24.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Politoed : 28.1% - 33.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Breloom : 81.7% - 96.6% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Jarooda : 50.7% - 59.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Espeon : 109.2% - 129.2% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Garchomp : 45.3% - 53.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 50.7% - 59.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 24.8% - 29.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Urugamosu : 43.6% - 51.9% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Sazandora : 23.9% - 28.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Calm Leftovers Burungeru : 49.5% - 58.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 192/0 Timid Leftovers Zapdos : 42.3% - 49.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Life Orb Dragonite : 36.8% - 43.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Heatran : 20.7% - 24.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Impish Leftovers Hippowdon : 44.3% - 52.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Ninetales : 49.3% - 58.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 72/0 Timid Life Orb Genosekuto : 24.6% - 28.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Leftovers Gyarados : 42.8% - 50.6% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Lum Berry Ononokusu : 64.8% - 76.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Focus Sash Cloyster : 109.5% - 129.3% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Starmie : 123.7% - 146.6% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Kerudio : 48.1% - 56.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Erufuun : 55.6% - 65.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 188/68 Bold Leftovers Vaporeon : 30.8% - 36.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Gengar : 137.4% - 162.6% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Zoroaaku : 40.8% - 48.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Borutorosu : 57% - 67.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Hardy Leftovers Forretress : 29.9% - 35.6% (doesn't KO) vs. Naive Life Orb Salamence : 57.4% - 68% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Randorosu : 53.4% - 63.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Skarmory : 28.4% - 33.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Jolly Toxic Orb Gliscor : 50.8% - 60.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Zuruzukin : 13.8% - 16.5% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Infernape : 63.8% - 75.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Quiet Life Orb Rankurusu : 76.4% - 90.6% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Latios : 87.4% - 103.3% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/128 Bold Porygon2 : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 244/0 Adamant Occa Berry Metagross : 43.1% - 50.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Careful Leftovers Jirachi : 28.2% - 33.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Modest Life Orb Ludicolo : 47% - 55.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/136 Calm Leftovers Tentacruel : 27.2% - 32.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 33.7% - 39.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Kojondo : 78.7% - 93% (doesn't KO) vs. 128/0 Adamant Leftovers Machamp : 45.9% - 54.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Modest Leftovers Suicune : 37.2% - 44% (doesn't KO) vs. 240/52 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 36.7% - 43.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Naughty Life Orb Venusaur : 52.8% - 62.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/68 Bold Leftovers Togekiss : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Alakazam : 129.1% - 153% (OHKO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Sableye : 44.1% - 52% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Hihidaruma : 65.1% - 77% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Rotom-W : 44.4% - 52.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Focus Sash Smeargle : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Band Mamoswine : 59.1% - 69.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Leftovers Goruggo : 107.2% - 126.6% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Terakion : 48.1% - 56.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Chansey : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Electivire : 55.5% - 65.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 54.4% - 64.3% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Abomasnow : 50.5% - 59.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Focus Sash Azelf : 130.1% - 154.1% (OHKO) vs. 192/0 Modest Focus Sash Deoxys-S : 108% - 127.3% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Arcanine : 53.1% - 62.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Denchura : 75.9% - 89.7% (OHKO with SR) vs. Jolly Life Orb Chirachiino : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Focus Sash Weavile : 28.8% - 34.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Choice Scarf Charizard : 54.5% - 64.6% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Warubiaru : 28.6% - 33.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Kabutops : 72.5% - 85.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/120 Bold Leftovers Desukan : 75.6% - 90% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Jolly Focus Sash Aerodactyl : 59.6% - 70.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Donphan : 55.7% - 65.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Nidoking : 59.2% - 70.1% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Choice Scarf Staraptor : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. 12/0 Modest Petaya Berry Empoleon : 22.4% - 26.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Feraligatr : 53.2% - 62.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/56 Impish Leftovers Celebi : 66.8% - 78.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/96 Relaxed Leftovers Bronzong : 33.7% - 40.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Slowbro : 85.8% - 102% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/100 Bold Leftovers Milotic : 27.7% - 32.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Latias : 62.6% - 74.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone : 27.7% - 32.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 188/216 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. Timid Life Orb Bikutini : 83.3% - 98.5% (OHKO with SR) vs. 252/0 Modest Leftovers Shibirudon : 45.7% - 54% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Modest Choice Specs Agirudaa : 70.9% - 83.8% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Flygon : 56.6% - 66.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid BrightPowder Froslass : 134.5% - 158.7% (OHKO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Life Orb Hitmontop : 43.4% - 51.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Meloetta : 0% - 0% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Aianto : 49.4% - 58.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Naive Life Orb Kyuremu : 44% - 52.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross : 49% - 57.9% (doesn't KO) [/spoiler] [spoiler] 252 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera Energy Ball vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera : 19.8% - 23.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Nattorei : 4.5% - 5.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Roobushin : 32.6% - 38.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Choice Scarf Ditto : 56.7% - 66.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Doryuuzu : 37.3% - 43.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 40/0 Adamant Leftovers Blaziken : 20.3% - 24.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar : 55.6% - 65.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Politoed : 37.5% - 44.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Breloom : 27.1% - 32.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Jarooda : 16.8% - 19.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Espeon : 36.5% - 43.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Garchomp : 30.2% - 35.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 33.9% - 40.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 8.2% - 9.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Urugamosu : 7.1% - 8.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Sazandora : 16% - 18.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Calm Leftovers Burungeru : 33.2% - 39.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 192/0 Timid Leftovers Zapdos : 14.1% - 16.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Life Orb Dragonite : 6% - 7.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Heatran : 6.8% - 8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Impish Leftovers Hippowdon : 59% - 69.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Ninetales : 16.3% - 19.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 72/0 Timid Life Orb Genosekuto : 8% - 9.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Leftovers Gyarados : 28.6% - 33.7% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Lum Berry Ononokusu : 21.5% - 25.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Focus Sash Cloyster : 146.3% - 172.7% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Starmie : 82.4% - 97.7% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Kerudio : 64.2% - 75.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Erufuun : 18.5% - 21.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 188/68 Bold Leftovers Vaporeon : 41.1% - 48.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Gengar : 22.9% - 27.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Zoroaaku : 54.6% - 64.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Borutorosu : 19% - 22.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Hardy Leftovers Forretress : 9.9% - 11.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Naive Life Orb Salamence : 9.4% - 11.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Randorosu : 35.6% - 42.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Skarmory : 9.3% - 11.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Jolly Toxic Orb Gliscor : 33.9% - 40.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Zuruzukin : 18.6% - 22.2% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Infernape : 21.2% - 25.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 10.2% - 12.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Quiet Life Orb Rankurusu : 25.5% - 30.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Latios : 14.6% - 17.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Bold Porygon2 : 23.3% - 27.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 244/0 Adamant Occa Berry Metagross : 14.4% - 16.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Careful Leftovers Jirachi : 9.4% - 11.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Modest Life Orb Ludicolo : 31.5% - 37.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/136 Calm Leftovers Tentacruel : 18.1% - 21.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 22.3% - 26.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Kojondo : 52.6% - 62.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 128/0 Adamant Leftovers Machamp : 30.6% - 36.3% (doesn't KO) vs. Modest Leftovers Suicune : 49.9% - 58.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 240/52 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 97.8% - 115.7% (OHKO with SR) vs. Naughty Life Orb Venusaur : 8.6% - 10.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/68 Bold Leftovers Togekiss : 10.4% - 12.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Alakazam : 43% - 51% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Sableye : 29.6% - 34.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Hihidaruma : 21.6% - 25.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Rotom-W : 59.2% - 69.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Focus Sash Smeargle : 56.4% - 66.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Band Mamoswine : 79% - 93.4% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. Adamant Leftovers Goruggo : 71.5% - 84.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Terakion : 64.2% - 75.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Chansey : 12.9% - 15.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Electivire : 37% - 43.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 36.4% - 43% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Abomasnow : 16.8% - 19.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Focus Sash Azelf : 43.5% - 51.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 192/0 Modest Focus Sash Deoxys-S : 36% - 42.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Arcanine : 17.7% - 20.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Denchura : 25.2% - 29.8% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Chirachiino : 49.1% - 58.1% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Focus Sash Weavile : 38.4% - 45.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Choice Scarf Charizard : 9.1% - 10.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Warubiaru : 76.5% - 90.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Kabutops : 193.9% - 229% (OHKO) vs. 252/120 Bold Leftovers Desukan : 25.3% - 30% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Focus Sash Aerodactyl : 39.7% - 47% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Donphan : 74.5% - 88% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Nidoking : 39.5% - 46.7% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Choice Scarf Staraptor : 26.4% - 31.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 12/0 Modest Petaya Berry Empoleon : 30.1% - 35.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Feraligatr : 71.2% - 84% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/56 Impish Leftovers Celebi : 11.1% - 13.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/96 Relaxed Leftovers Bronzong : 11.2% - 13.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Slowbro : 57.4% - 68% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/100 Bold Leftovers Milotic : 37.1% - 43.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Latias : 10.4% - 12.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone : 18.4% - 21.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 188/216 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 13% - 15.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Timid Life Orb Bikutini : 13.8% - 16.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Modest Leftovers Shibirudon : 30.5% - 36.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Modest Choice Specs Agirudaa : 23.5% - 27.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Flygon : 37.7% - 44.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid BrightPowder Froslass : 44.8% - 53% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Life Orb Hitmontop : 28.9% - 34.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Meloetta : 22.5% - 26.6% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Aianto : 16.3% - 19.5% (doesn't KO) vs. Naive Life Orb Kyuremu : 14.6% - 17.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross : 16.2% - 19.2% (doesn't KO) [/spoiler] [spoiler] 252 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera Hidden Power vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Shandera : 17.2% - 20.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Nattorei : 15.9% - 19% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Leftovers Roobushin : 28.5% - 33.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Choice Scarf Ditto : 49.3% - 58.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Doryuuzu : 32.6% - 38.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 40/0 Adamant Leftovers Blaziken : 17.7% - 20.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar : 24.3% - 28.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/196 Sassy Leftovers Politoed : 8.1% - 9.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Breloom : 95.4% - 113% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Jarooda : 59.6% - 70.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Espeon : 31.7% - 37.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Garchomp : 107.3% - 126.3% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 29.5% - 34.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 14.6% - 17.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Urugamosu : 12.5% - 15.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Sazandora : 55.2% - 65.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Calm Leftovers Burungeru : 7.2% - 8.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 192/0 Timid Leftovers Zapdos : 48.8% - 58% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Impish Life Orb Dragonite : 86% - 101.6% (OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Heatran : 5.9% - 7.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Impish Leftovers Hippowdon : 51.4% - 61% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Ninetales : 14.2% - 17% (doesn't KO) vs. 72/0 Timid Life Orb Genosekuto : 14.3% - 16.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Leftovers Gyarados : 24.7% - 29.5% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Lum Berry Ononokusu : 75.8% - 89.4% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 4/0 Adamant Focus Sash Cloyster : 15.7% - 18.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Starmie : 18.3% - 21.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Leftovers Kerudio : 13.9% - 16.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Leftovers Erufuun : 64.8% - 76.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 188/68 Bold Leftovers Vaporeon : 8.9% - 10.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Gengar : 40.1% - 47.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Zoroaaku : 47.7% - 56.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Borutorosu : 66.7% - 78.7% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/4 Hardy Leftovers Forretress : 17.5% - 20.6% (doesn't KO) vs. Naive Life Orb Salamence : 134.1% - 158.3% (OHKO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Randorosu : 125% - 147.5% (OHKO) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Skarmory : 32.9% - 38.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Jolly Toxic Orb Gliscor : 118.6% - 140.1% (OHKO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Zuruzukin : 16.5% - 19.5% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Infernape : 18.8% - 22.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Blissey : 9% - 10.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Quiet Life Orb Rankurusu : 22.6% - 26.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Latios : 51% - 60.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Bold Porygon2 : 20.3% - 24.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 244/0 Adamant Occa Berry Metagross : 12.4% - 14.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/128 Careful Leftovers Jirachi : 8.2% - 9.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Modest Life Orb Ludicolo : 27.2% - 32.5% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/136 Calm Leftovers Tentacruel : 8% - 9.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 19.5% - 23% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Kojondo : 46% - 54.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 128/0 Adamant Leftovers Machamp : 27.2% - 32% (doesn't KO) vs. Modest Leftovers Suicune : 10.6% - 12.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 240/52 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 20.9% - 24.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Naughty Life Orb Venusaur : 61.1% - 72.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/68 Bold Leftovers Togekiss : 36.9% - 43.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Leftovers Alakazam : 37.8% - 44.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/252 Careful Leftovers Sableye : 26% - 30.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Hihidaruma : 19% - 22.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Rotom-W : 12.8% - 15.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Timid Focus Sash Smeargle : 49.4% - 58.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Band Mamoswine : 17.1% - 20.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Leftovers Goruggo : 62.7% - 74% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Terakion : 27.8% - 33% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Chansey : 11.2% - 13.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Electivire : 32.9% - 38.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Jolteon : 32% - 37.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Abomasnow : 29.9% - 35.2% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Focus Sash Azelf : 38% - 44.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 192/0 Modest Focus Sash Deoxys-S : 31.1% - 37% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Arcanine : 15.5% - 18.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Specs Denchura : 44.3% - 52.5% (doesn't KO) vs. Jolly Life Orb Chirachiino : 43% - 50.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Focus Sash Weavile : 17.1% - 19.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 0/4 Timid Choice Scarf Charizard : 31.6% - 37.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Warubiaru : 66.9% - 78.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Kabutops : 21% - 24.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/120 Bold Leftovers Desukan : 22.2% - 26.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Focus Sash Aerodactyl : 69.5% - 82.1% (possible OHKO with SR) vs. 252/0 Impish Leftovers Donphan : 65.1% - 77.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Nidoking : 69.1% - 81.6% (doesn't KO) vs. Adamant Choice Scarf Staraptor : 92.6% - 109.3% (OHKO with SR) vs. 12/0 Modest Petaya Berry Empoleon : 6.4% - 7.7% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Life Orb Feraligatr : 15.4% - 18.3% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/56 Impish Leftovers Celebi : 39.1% - 46% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/96 Relaxed Leftovers Bronzong : 10.1% - 11.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/4 Bold Leftovers Slowbro : 12.7% - 15% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/100 Bold Leftovers Milotic : 7.9% - 9.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Bold Leftovers Latias : 36.8% - 43.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone : 16% - 18.8% (doesn't KO) vs. 188/216 Careful Leftovers Snorlax : 5.7% - 6.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Timid Life Orb Bikutini : 12% - 14.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Modest Leftovers Shibirudon : 26.7% - 31.6% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Modest Choice Specs Agirudaa : 41.4% - 49% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Flygon : 132.5% - 156.3% (OHKO) vs. 0/4 Timid BrightPowder Froslass : 19.6% - 23.1% (doesn't KO) vs. 252/0 Adamant Life Orb Hitmontop : 25.3% - 29.9% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Jolly Life Orb Meloetta : 19.9% - 23.4% (doesn't KO) vs. Hasty Choice Scarf Aianto : 28.8% - 33.9% (doesn't KO) vs. Naive Life Orb Kyuremu : 25.8% - 30.4% (doesn't KO) vs. 4/0 Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross : 28.8% - 34.1% (doesn't KO) [/spoiler] As well I can go run numbers for all listed above for modest as well if liked to show a pattern of power based on it's ability + Stats it can leave a wake being more then someone might notice. You mention Regulars yes, but if you look at the point from seeing it constantly and everyone having it....You might start to build anticipating it because it's that centralized. While I hold an outlook that isn't seeing it around and while my rain team deals with it being it's rain, some of my others notably are having more difficultly with it because it's that kind of power For the example of Scizor, Simply yes Shandy could take a BP....But why risk it? you more then likely have someone else who can deal with scizor such as a Gliscor, go to what is likely to be the best ideal check to see what happens 1st rather than just flat out possible loss of something. Side note here as well, you mention it's not hard for a skilled player to deal with one, well isn't that also true of OU vs Uber? If you're skilled enough to a degree above the other player you may just beat them on a normal basis much like how NU can beat OU. There is some level that it's not always that way. But that's a little off topic beat. Mafia: Pursuit tar...Viable yes, but not the most common tar used, here maybe it is more common due to it having to be because of shandy. But that would mean that having pursuit would make...a centralized part of it having to deal with it. Which begs a look at and possible kick upward. Rain Teams biggest thing is right here, they stop the fire side of him dead cold and if you don't run a weather your self well it can make it half as well as it should be. Heatran yes it can be a nice check for it...But why would you bring it in on heatran, and unless you can switch into heatran...It proves as little of a problem. SR, the 2nd noted thing I mentioned at the start for limitation of it's powers. Spikes they are like SR but not used as much is the thing. Weavile, to slow and if you say sash, weather, prior damage etc. Gotta scarf it to be faster. Set up yes that is the most common thing to do afterward but depending on what is setting up it may not pose a threat to that team. It's a situational one here. Pursuit Scizor, Goes back to having to run that for...Shandy. Key point being having to run it. Roar, or WW only works when you have sub up or some kind of sash/sturdy but it's still kinda eh because they break the sub and you give them a random one can work or back fire. CM, wouldn't bring it out on it unless you knew that could KO at the time as a physical hit would work better on a CM'er no? Sucker Punchers, Not the most common move and easily spotted to who has the move so easy to watch for. Aqua Jet...Really? Because no one in their right mind would send it against someone with AJ. It may be a one trick pony but it can do what it does WELL and leave holes in teams you may have 100% needed other wise you'd lose.

[quote name='Cyrus' timestamp='1310113671' post='17448'] Chansey trolls the FUCK out of Chandy. Same can be said with Blissey. [/quote] Okay...Why would you bring that in on either on them? So it DOESN'T troll them... It's like saying why would you bring in a kingdra on a garchomp who is using outrage.

[quote name='Geo' timestamp='1310113274' post='17445'] Inb4 tis get how many post as the Shandera thread did in PO Inb4 struggle and rage and trollin Inb4 Mafia being a bro Inb4 Ame tells me something about theses Inb4s [/quote] Lol, well thank you for these Wonderful Inb4's. I use them my self while battling and they normally come true.

[quote name='Amethyst' timestamp='1310109277' post='17432'] This is even better planned out than I thought; well done. However, to start, I'd like to contest your definition of a Counter. Firstly, return-fire KOing implies offense over defense. I honestly don't think you meant to exclude stall tactics with this wording, but the connotations of return-fire seem to lie more with offense. Just clearing up that stalling them out would also be successfully countering the Pokemon. Correct me if I'm wrong, there. That's an aside though. The part I take issue with is "can switch in." As you say, Shadow Tag obviously prohibits [i]anything[/i] from switching in. However, if we then go by your definition, Shadow Tag Gothitelle would also be considered a Pokemon that has no counters, because nothing can switch into it. Yet, I think there are few people who suppose that Gothitelle should be ubers. Again, if you disagree, please say so. Therefore, we must distinguish between Gothitelle and Chandelure. The obvious answer? The great offensive capability. Granted. But in making that distinction, it stands to reason that your definition of a counter is either unsatisfactory, or that a Pokemon having no counters is not reason enough to ban it to Ubers. On a completely different tangent however, I'll contest what even I've said here: Though I phrased in that way for the sake of simplicity, that is actually a very inaccurate statement. Shadow Tag prevents nothing from switching in, but [i]most things[/i] from switching out. Shed Shell users and other Shadow Tag users can freely switch out, also meaning that under those circumstances [i]anything[/i] can switch in, and that opens up a whoooooole range of what could be a counter. Moreover, the ability Arena Trap has the same effect on a smaller scale. Only ungrounded Pokemon are unaffect. Even beside that, Magnet Pull does the same to steel types, meaning that if a Magnet Pull Magnezone is sent out against your Skarmory, at that time the Magnezone, by your definition would effectively have no counters. To take it even further, the moves Mean Look, Block, and Spider Web all also would induce a counter-less status on that Pokemon when used, and even [i]further than that[/i] things like Whirlpool, Fire Spin, Clamp, and WRAP. All of this is just as conditional as Shadow Tag is. For these reasons, I lean towards the former option in my above-stated logical fork-in-the-road: That the definition is flawed. Before getting any further, I'll allow you to answer to this point. [/quote] Well to start off Stall is Viable, but the poke in question isn't one to stay in, to be stalled out. Which is why I left it to that stall is a form of variant context that could be used to KO it. But as it stands shandera mainly going scarfed and such wont have stall to worry about as a whole. Ah, well I was waiting for someone to bring Gothitelle into the picture as there lies a difference between the two pokemon and their uses. Look at Stats alone. Shandera Speed Base 80 Sp.atk Base 145 Gothitelle Speed Base 65 Sp.atk Base 95 That alone shows a small light on why Shandera is a better option to use over Goth. As well Being what it is Gothitelee can be good, but with out power to actually come in and KO or enough to set up before they take you out leaves the lack luster issue. I HAVE seen it used in a various manor where it can be a threat to someone in they may sweep your team the big difference is the likely hood of that isn't to great. It doesn't have counters either, but it's uses are far from the same. Shandera lies in a Revenge killer or stopping something you need such as say skarm or something. The OTHER Difference between the two is the Stab basis. Shandera Gets Ghost/Fire, a very potent in the OU meta as it can counter a good chunk of things that come along or hit them for neutral and still hit hard. Gothitelle on the other hand only has one stab being Psychic which, well...We have a variety of other users with more speed and power or more bulk and as well as power, Two noted Espeon and Renuiclus(sp). Shadow Tag is a nasty ability but it can be harmless depending on the wielder, Much like Wobbuffet he can be great or he can suck depending on who you are facing if they have set up or are mix...you can be in trouble and it can turn out useless and encore can try and help but it's luck based then. While it not having counters isn't a total reason it's part of the grand total reason, It has power + no counters. While Gothitelle has not counters but has no real power either. Also to note it's not the whole pokemon, it's just Shandera + Shadow Tag in which I'm saying should be Uber. Flash Fire Shandera is not broken but can still be potent to a point. Now onto the 2nd half of such. You talk of Shed Shell, which is an item to be held...So you're saying that this is a counter, when you have to hold an item for just ONE pokemon you MAY see in the OU metagame? That would be a forced thing...For a Select chance, which has been proven in the past to also be a reason for it to be bumped to ubers. As it requires you have this basically to play on a basic even footing. Also, you have to freely give up an item slot on your team for something that could do that. As well...It means if you lose that one who has it early and they don't bring it in till late game....Or not against that one the "counter" would be ineffective no? Also you talk of Arena trap, I don't know my self since i've never tested that theory if shadow tag + Arena trap allow you to switch out, if it does then you're lucky enough to have what? One Pokemon who has the ability, a pokemon who isn't really used in OU because it's nice...But doesn't hold much of a candle to others of similar qualities, and if you HAVE to have to counter shandy...That's 1/6 of your team given to just being able to counter ONE pokemon out of all the OU's. Plus even with it's speed...You'd have to scarf Dugtrio to counter Shandy's speed. Which there in even FURTHER limits it's ability to do much at all in the OU range. Steel Electric for mag....X4 weakness to Ground Yes it's a GREAT Scizor/Skarm/Ferro counter..It's EVIL to them i mean beyond reason. I my self have used this combo before to establish a basis of being able to get rid of it, and some others if lucky. The difference is again a speed factor here Mag is Base 60 speed, and if you want it to counter steel types you need HP fire. Which allows other to mess with it, this one is Similar but it's still not a candle holder. Why is simply Less speed, and Selective type grabbing only blocks steels. Shadow tag does not discriminate in terms of typing it stops all. As it DOES have counters because unless it's a steel type, you can freely switch giving it a vast number of things to toss at who aren't steel. Onto Trap Moves. Always had fun watching people use these....Normally don't work to well in the long run unless you get lucky or you have REALLY planned out for any contingency in OU which I don't believe is possible. Spider Web: Two Pokemon learn it, neither are OU, one is NU the other NU/UU. Ariados, Don't really need to say much for the poor little guy Bug/Posion bad typing. Bad stats...Move pool could use work. Galvantula, Now he is the speed demon of trap moves, Problem though not enough bulk. He really doesn't have what he needs to be any threat with Spider Web. Plus if I recall right he doesn't have baton pass....So it's a 100% free hit on you if they stick in...If they switch it didn't really do anything now did it? Mean Look Now this move...I've seen it more then once in baton pass based teams...it can be valuable to them or it can be 100% useless It's all how the team functions and who it's up against in the long run. Now these boys...Who have mean look accessible to them a lot of them have the BULK...But no speed which may prove handy The thing being here once again is Switching, if you have speed and no bulk you die to a hit. You have bulk but no speed they switch into something that can deal with you and it makes your mean look kinda iffy...Unless you pack BP which can make it a little better. But I've only seen Mean Look work Once in a stall battle, and now and then work in a baton pass based team. So while they may SEEM to have the same powers as Shadow tag, the principles are not the same quality based. Shadow Tag works with out using a turn, with out using a move slot, with out anyone having to do anything. It's like Ditto's Imposter ability just auto works, no nothing needed before or after or during. The closest you brought up was magnet pull which again is a close one but extremely selective on it's uses. I look forward to your next post in what you left out as well as rebuttal for any of the given points, been a long while since I had a challenge before me, and I have to say I'm enjoying this one. Also since you challenged it by it's wording could you suggest a better one for me then as I did this in a bit of a hurry, had one whole thing bigger then the current post...But Chrome Errored...And Deleted it....So I had to redo it with out 100% the same info. So some help would be lovely, thank you in advance.

[quote name='Slut' timestamp='1310102555' post='17420'] Cyrus, that's one single pokemon with one single item... A counter is something that lots of people would use in situations not involving Chandelure, but able to beat it. Also, Chandelure can switch out from scarfchomp. [/quote] Was about to say that XD But also again it's NOT a "Counter", it barely fits a Check. But since Shandera comes down to come in Hit and kill, and leave after, a Scarf Chomp doesn't mean to much it. While a handful of people use Scarf chomp most would be wary of using it against chomp with out knowing it's set 1st, I know I wouldn't Dare bring it in on chomp if I didn't know what type it was. Being that finding that out isn't to hard because while chomp has nice base speed, you can have someone speedier on your team or a scarfer of your own if it outspeeds then you know better to bring it in against it.

Shandera(Chandelure) a pokemon of great ability, often debated on where it should be in OU or Ubers. Following the trend of the major tiers people most have flat out just banned it. While here in Reborn it has been left in OU, it's power is great yes but is it broken in it's own way? That is what I intend to show. A counter(Counter Defined as something that can switch in take a hit, or two if needed, and return fire KO'ing the poke it was sent against.) Is something shandera has not, While this works with many pokemon Shandera has a nifty little thing known as Shadow Tag. The ability Negates anyway to own a counter to it as switching is physically impossible. This results in the Direct ability to Revenge Kill just about anything in the OU meta game or in fact not even Revenge Kill but stop something from doing anything else. The ways to limit it's power thus far in OU is one of two ways one is kinda iffy as it only cuts part of it's power The 1st option being Stealth Rocks, which limit's it's use to 4/5 times coming in and out, a viable way of putting a dent in it's power and use. The 2nd option would be a Rain Team, and from that you limit it's fire power and cut a vital part of it's power, but it still holds shadow ball and a decent chunk of power with that. Shandera Runs two basic ways for speed + Power Modest + Scarf for more attack, and less speed netting you 427 Sp.atk and 388 Speed(This being the version I will be doing all damage calculations with.) And Timid + Scarf for more speed, and less attack netting you 389 sp.atk and 426 Speed. In the OU meta game listed by the Reborn Tiers listed from the link the Sever you have these numbered pokes in the Base defense listed(IE you have 12 pokemon with sp.def over base 100) Over base 100: 12 Base 100: 7 Base 95: 6 Base 90: 6 Base 85: 5 base 80: 6 Below base 80: 14 This next part is damage calculation based on Base Defenses list being Base 100 to base 80, All calculations will be done with X1 resist to Fire/Ghost Base 100 Over Heat: 271-321 Fire Blast: 234-276 Shadow Ball: 186-219 Base 95 Over Heat: 285-336 Fire Blast: 244-288 Shadow Ball: 193-228 Base 90 Over Heat: 297-351 Fire Blast: 255-301 Shadow Ball: 202-238 Base 85 Over Heat: 328-387 Fire Blast: 280-331 Shadow Ball: 222-262 Base 80 Over Heat: 328-387 Fire Blast: 280-331 Shadow Ball: 222-262 Using Base 100 Sp.def as the basis, Using Shadow Ball you can OHKO up to a Base of 48 HP No EV investment. Using Base 100 Sp.def as the basis, Using Over Heat you can OHKO up to a Base of 94 HP No EV investment More Calculations and numbers to follow in various edits if require(Ie how many have X base HP in OU)