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TwilightCoda

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    (Reborn Lore) The Golden And Ivory Key

    in Reborn Theories

    Posted

    Hey everyone. I'd like to discuss what my theories for the Gold and Ivory Keys are in Reborn. Mostly to get it out of my head, but also to debate it with you all. So, without further ado:

     

    My theory for the Golden Key is that it is you, the player. It's been pretty much all but confirmed through dialogue with other characters, such as Anna saying that you're "glowy" or that "your light shines brighter in the darkness", and Bennett straight up calling you the "golden child". You also fit nicely within the motifs of what gold has symbolized throughout history, most notably courage, nobility, and incorruptibility. Strength and wisdom are some runner-ups.

     

    Now for the Ivory Key. This one is harder to pin down for a few reasons. Like the first, I do not think that this is a physical key, rather a person (or Pokemon) that incarnates as or mantles the archetype. So where the Golden Key is someone who is pure (uncorrupt) of heart, strong, wise, and noble, the Ivory Key would likewise be someone who displays the motifs of Ivory. A quick Google search nets "purity" and "innocence" as the two most common things that Ivory can represent. (A quick note: "purity" in relation to gold is a description of how all other elements separate from gold ore when it is melted down, hence it being incorruptible or a "noble metal". "Purity" in relation to Ivory is more akin to chastity or child-like innocence.)

     

    Now for the hard part: it's been established that all of the Keys have an effect on whoever they come into contact with (you can look up the individual key's effects on different people in other threads), so suffice it to say that whoever the Ivory Key is would display the traits mentioned above. The problem is while all five other keys have *confirmed* owners, no one in the story has been identified as being particularly innocent or pure so far.

     

    This leads me to the speculation section. There are only two serious contenders for this spot as of now in my mind: Lin and Arceus. I know what you're thinking: "What?! Lin?!?!". I have some misgivings about her, too, but several things pointed me in that direction. Firstly, she is described by everyone that remembers her as a child, which fits with the whole "child-like innocence" thing, if we're going to stereotype children. Which I am, for now. The second thing is how the adult Lin seems to be crying out for help when you meet her in the Void. As you know, the Void shows events as they truly happened, not just what was perceived. When you talk to Lin, she start her usual "you thought you were strong" speech, but then it devolves into her emphatically stating that "no one ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever helps". I've always read that final part as her begging someone to stand beside her in a fight against something. Some other things that add onto this is how she never harms you or wants you harmed (like she's aware of you status as a Key), and how she tells Titania that the two of you are actually working together. The other event of note is how the voice in the Citae (believed to be the child Lin) asks you in the Void if you "even know who your real ally is". This is further elaborated on by the dream Hardy has while he is asleep in the elevator during the raid on the Glass Workstation. I can't find a quote anywhere, but he basically says that he dreamt that he and you (the player) were in a room or cave facing down a powerful Dragon-type Eevee king. All of your mutual friends were there with you, too, along with a "doppelganger" Eevee king that wanted your help killing or stopping the other one. The first thing I took from this is that the adult and child Lin eventually fight each other, and one of them will want the help of you and your friends. (Side note, again. The reason I believe this is because Lin was the Dragon-type specialist back in the Online League days). I suspect the adult Lin is the one that will want your help for several reasons. Firstly, the "doppelganger" bit. In order for something to be a doppelganger, the original must first exist. My point is that the child Lin existed before the adult Lin (as far as we know), so the adult version is the one needing help. (Remember "no one ever ever ever ever ever ever ever helps" ?) The other reason is simply because the child Lin has implied several times that she is at a power level basically just shy of omnipotence, so I don't think she needs any kind of help with anything.

     

    The problem with this whole "Lin is innocent" theory is that it requires an extremely loose definition of innocence and purity; the adult Lin is a sadistic murderer, and the child Lin is always described as nothing less than a budding sociopath. The only way I can see this working out is that the adult Lin is under some kind of control by the child Lin, and wants to, or will, break free. Once she does, she'll request you and your friend's help in stopping the child version of her from doing whatever it is she wants to do. I think that much is certain; the two Lins will go head to head at some point, with the all powerful adult Lin losing (remember Shade's gym?). Watching the big bad go down without putting up much of a fight would definitely set the stakes as to how powerful this god-child Lin is.

     

    Lastly, we have Arceus. There is not as much to go off of here, but it's cleaner information. Firstly Arceus is described in numerous books as being "the ivory beast". If that isn't a reference to ivory, I don't know what is. The other interesting piece of info is how Arceus is described as a baby in the journal in Terra's digital world. I don't know about you, but I don't have much of an issue appling the terms "innocent" and "pure" to a baby version of an ivory beast that radiates light.

     

    As you can see, Arceus fits the bill of the Ivory Key much nicer than Lin, or anyone else for that matter. I am not sure what the implications of this could be, though; the religious texts are not clear or consistent. Some speak of six keys being used for something, some speak of only four. However, I've noticed that when only the four keys are being referenced, it's talking about what is required to open the doors that surrounding the impact crater, and one book talking about "four pillars of light" that bind this world to another realm just like it. But when all six keys are mentioned, it talks about a great darkness that was sealed away using the power of them all. I am unsure what this darkness could be (I don't think it's Giratina, but we can discuss that later), but it seems that in order to fight it, it takes the four keys, plus the two incarnated heroes.

     

    There is so much more that I could try to add into this post such as why Lin wants all of the keys in the hands of their rightful owners (the Elite Four), or the multitude of times that the radio signal or static motif is used in the game (it's even on the development scoreboard, for crying out loud!), but we'll stop here for now. Let me know what you think.

     

    Feel free to ask for clarification or chime in if you think I missed something; there is still much we do not know.

     

    (Reborn Lore) The Golden And Ivory Key

    in Reborn City

    Posted

    Hey everyone. I'd like to discuss what my theories for the Gold and Ivory Keys are in Reborn. Mostly to get it out of my head, but also to debate it with you all. So, without further ado:

     

    My theory for the Golden Key is that it is you, the player. It's been pretty much all but confirmed through dialogue with other characters, such as Anna saying that you're "glowy" or that "your light shines brighter in the darkness", and Bennett straight up calling you the "golden child". You also fit nicely within the motifs of what gold has symbolized throughout history, most notably courage, nobility, and incorruptibility. Strength and wisdom are some runner-ups.

     

    Now for the Ivory Key. This one is harder to pin down for a few reasons. Like the first, I do not think that this is a physical key, rather a person (or Pokemon) that incarnates as or mantles the archetype. So where the Golden Key is someone who is pure (uncorrupt) of heart, strong, wise, and noble, the Ivory Key would likewise be someone who displays the motifs of Ivory. A quick Google search nets "purity" and "innocence" as the two most common things that Ivory can represent. (A quick note: "purity" in relation to gold is a description of how all other elements separate from gold ore when it is melted down, hence it being incorruptible or a "noble metal". "Purity" in relation to Ivory is more akin to chastity or child-like innocence.)

     

    Now for the hard part: it's been established that all of the Keys have an effect on whoever they come into contact with (you can look up the individual key's effects on different people in other threads), so suffice it to say that whoever the Ivory Key is would display the traits mentioned above. The problem is while all five other keys have *confirmed* owners, no one in the story has been identified as being particularly innocent or pure so far.

     

    This leads me to the speculation section. There are only two serious contenders for this spot as of now in my mind: Lin and Arceus. I know what you're thinking: "What?! Lin?!?!". I have some misgivings about her, too, but several things pointed me in that direction. Firstly, she is described by everyone that remembers her as a child, which fits with the whole "child-like innocence" thing, if we're going to stereotype children. Which I am, for now. The second thing is how the adult Lin seems to be crying out for help when you meet her in the Void. As you know, the Void shows events as they truly happened, not just what was perceived. When you talk to Lin, she starts her usual "you thought you were strong" speech, but then it devolves into her emphatically stating that "no one ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever helps". I've always read that final part as her begging someone to stand beside her in a fight against something. Some other things that add onto this is how she never harms you or wants you harmed (like she's aware of your status as a Key), and how she tells Titania that the two of you are actually working together. The other event of note is how the voice in the Citae (believed to be the child Lin) asks you in the Void if you "even know who your real ally is". This is further elaborated on by the dream Hardy has while he is asleep in the elevator during the raid on the Glass Workstation. I can't find a quote anywhere, but he basically says that he dreamt that he and you (the player) were in a room or cave facing down a powerful Dragon-type Eevee king. All of your mutual friends were there with you, too, along with a "doppelganger" Eevee king that wanted your help killing or stopping the other one. The first thing I took from this is that the adult and child Lin eventually fight each other, and one of them will want the help of you and your friends. (Side note, again. The reason I believe this is because Lin was the Dragon-type specialist back in the Online League days). I suspect the adult Lin is the one that will want your help for several reasons. Firstly, the "doppelganger" bit. In order for something to be a doppelganger, the original must first exist. My point is that the child Lin existed before the adult Lin (as far as we know), so the adult version is the one needing help. (Remember "no one ever ever ever ever ever ever ever helps"?) The other reason is simply because the child Lin has implied several times that she is at a power level basically just shy of omnipotence, so I don't think she needs any kind of help with anything.

     

    The problem with this whole "Lin is innocent" theory is that it requires an extremely loose definition of innocence and purity; the adult Lin is a sadistic murderer, and the child Lin is always described as nothing less than a budding sociopath. The only way I can see this working out is that the adult Lin is under some kind of control by the child Lin, and wants to, or will, break free. Once she does, she'll request you and your friend's help in stopping the child version of her from doing whatever it is she wants to do. I think that much is certain; the two Lins will go head to head at some point, with the all powerful adult Lin losing (remember Shade's gym?). Watching the big bad go down without putting up much of a fight would definitely set the stakes as to how powerful this god-child Lin is.

     

    Lastly, we have Arceus. There is not as much to go off of here, but it's cleaner information. Firstly, Arceus is described in numerous books as being "the ivory beast". If that isn't a reference to ivory, I don't know what is. The other interesting piece of info is how Arceus is described as a baby in the journal in Terra's digital world. I don't know about you, but I don't have much of an issue appling the terms "innocent" and "pure" to a baby version of an ivory beast that radiates light.

     

    As you can see, Arceus fits the bill of the Ivory Key much nicer than Lin, or anyone else for that matter. I am not sure what the implications of this could be, though; the religious texts are not clear or consistent. Some speak of six keys being used for something, some speak of only four. However, I've noticed that when only the four keys are being referenced, it's talking about what is required to open the doors surrounding the impact crater, and one book talking about "four pillars of light" that bind this world to another realm just like it. But when all six keys are mentioned, it talks about a great darkness that was sealed away using the power of them all. I am unsure what this darkness could be (I don't think it's Giratina, but we can discuss that later), but it seems that in order to fight it, it takes the four keys, plus the two incarnated heroes.

     

    There is so much more that I could try to add into this post, such as why Lin wants all of the keys in the hands of their rightful owners (the Elite Four), or the multitude of times that the radio signal or static motif is used in the game (it's even on the development scoreboard, for crying out loud!), but we'll stop here for now. Let me know what you think.

     

    Feel free to ask for clarification or chime in if you think I missed something; there is still much we do not know.

    • Like 2

    The orphanage

    in Reborn City

    Posted

     I'm sure it will re-open for some story arc in the post-game. With Connal having his wife backstory and it being the place child Lin grew up and interacted with a good few of the main characters, I can't imagine that it's gone for good.

     

     Plus, there's still the basement arena.

    Reclaimer (Chapter 1) - Flood

    in Reborn City

    Posted

    Hey, everybody.

     

     I'm thinking of starting a two-part series about a music playlist I've made as I progressed through Reborn. This is the beginning of Part 1, titled "Reclaimer", which is roughly the first half of the game.

     

     Back in May of 2015, I stumbled onto this sub and learned of this game's existence. It would still be about five months until I played it for the first time, but I was enthralled by the description of the oppressive, industrial world that it was set in. As I read through the site, I happened to be listening to a song I had just discovered, and it went on to become the keynote for everything that was about to happen.

     

     This was that song: 

     

     

     

     

     At the time, I did not know how relevant the themes of "water" and "reclaiming" would be. For instance, several times in the early game, someone explicitly states the need to "reclaim" something, such as Mosswater Factory. Also unknown to me, "reclaiming" is also the name of part of the process of water filtration, which ties back into the song and name of this playlist.

     

     I'll update this post if I think of any more cool facts about this segment, and depending on the feedback, I'd love to continue doing this and see how the rest of you interpreted parts of the story.

     

     Thanks for reading (and listening)!

    Papermon And The Thousand-Year Development Cycle

    in Reborn City

    Posted

    @Burningocean2012 I was the same way. My 12-year-old self bought it on whim because the name sounded cool. I played it up to the Boggly Woods chapter and got stuck in a part where the music is particularly annoying. I went half mad from the constant noise and dropped the game for about a year. I picked it up again the following Fall to get past where I was stuck, if not for any other reason. Once I got to the part in Glitzville where everyone starts going missing, I was hooked. It became a ritual for about the next four years to play that game all the way though every Fall.

    Papermon And The Thousand-Year Development Cycle

    in Reborn City

    Posted

    Hey y'all.

     

      This question has been on my mind ever since I first played this game back in 2015, but I always forgot to ask it...

     

      Does anyone know if some inspiration for this game is based off of the plot from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door? There are several parallels in between these games:

     

    • Several items made of magical crystal need to be collected by a person / persons in order to open / reseal a buried chamber containing a great and ancient power.
    • The area that the player uses as a hub is a seedy, crime ridden city built upon the destroyed ruins of the civilization that came before it.
    • The evil group wants to awaken the ancient power and use it to shape the world to their needs.
    • Finally, and coincidentally, Jirachi also awakens every 1,000 years to grant someone a wish. If you have read the prophecy that the fortune teller recites to you, you should understand this point.

     

      I'm sure there are more links between the stories, but it's been years since I've played that game. Anyway, what do you all think? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

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