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  • v13 and MKXP


    andracass
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    TL;DR

    Someone in testing wasn't able to run the game and I freaked out.

    So this is an explainer for MKXP and why we're using it.

    There will also be a linux version!

     

    Hope I'm not interrupting anything.

    So, a while back, Jan mentioned that v13 would run entirely on MKXP.  There were some people who were concerned about this because of the hardware requirements for the reborn/deso brand MKXP. In response, I said this:

    image.png

    This comment didn't age very well. We may have some issues.

    I haven't posted over here before (hi rejuvians) but y'all who know me from the reborn side are probably used to my big-ass deep dives into technical problems.

    This is going to be a little bit different (and more serious) than all of those since this involves a problem that I made and can't easily fix. You can skip ahead to "should I worry about this?" if you just want to get to solutions. They exist- they're just not convenient.

     

    What's MKXP?

    MKXP is an open-source implementation of the RPG Maker XP (RMXP) engine. Its original purpose was preservation; RMXP originally came out in 2004 (likely making it older than some of y'all reading this) and technological progression since then has risked old RMXP projects being lost to the sands of time. In ensuring that old RMXP projects would still be functional in the modern era, it implements a lot more recent tech than the original program used. This means that we get much better performance out of the engine. This is a pretty big deal since RMXP itself has a tendency to grind to a halt under the weight of everything the crazy-ass local devs 'round these parts throw at it. The RMXP engine still sucks, but MKXP makes it substantially less noticable.

    It also means that we can support mac and linux! 

     

    Why isn't rejuv using RMXP still?

    If you've checked out reborn/deso, you've seen that there are two exes- "game.exe" and "game-z.exe", which use RMXP and MKXP respectively. Rejuv will only have one- "game.exe"- and it uses MKXP. This decision was made because it means we can use Ruby 3.0 instead of RMXP's version, which is 1.8.1. 

    Ruby 3 is much faster. v13 won't even be tapping into its full potential since, well, we don't have time for it. The problem, then, is that we can't run two versions of ruby at the same time. Going from ruby 1.8 -> ruby 3.0 is a one-way street- I wanted to pop out some performance comparisons to show how much faster it was, but since it was saved with a different ruby version, my v13 file doesn't work with v12. 

    If we were still working with the MKXP of yesteryear, this would be a much bigger concern; thankfully, though, we are not. The reborn/deso version has higher hardware requirements- specifically, it requires OpenGL 3.3. v13's version will only need OpenGL 2.0! CPUs have been shipping with OpenGL 2.0 since 2006, so this would make this hardware requirements effectively identical to that of RMXP. Anyone who could run the old engine would be able to run the new one. Thus, we decided that we may as well move engines and get the performance boost.

    ...but this post exists, so you know that's not the end of this.

     

    So why does this post exist?

    Windows.

    The fact that you have a CPU that is OpenGL capable does not mean that windows is going to support it. If your CPU isn't supported by, say, windows 10, it means that this entire time you're probably running microsoft's basic bitch display driver, which comes with OpenGL 1.4. That happens to be what RMXP runs on, but it's not good enough for MKXP.

    That's a problem.

    Finding out that release day has arrived only for you to be unable to play the game you've been waiting to play fucking sucks. This post exists so (hopefully) none of you have to deal with that.

     

    Should I be worried about this?

    If you are able to run reborn/deso MKXP, you are fine.

    If you use Windows 7, you should be fine.

    If you have a dedicated GPU, you should be fine.

    The rest of you: step into my office.

     

    Uh-oh, am I in trouble?

    Probably.

    The good news is that there is something you can do to get the game to load. There's a DLL that you can drop in your game folder that will be enough to get the game to open.

    Bad news is that it runs like shit. If you want to at least be able to play the new content (which is very good, IMO), this will allow you to do so.

    There are a handful of troubleshooting steps you can try to make your CPU/GPU play nicely with windows. You do not have to do any of this now. If you'd rather wait and see if the new engine works for you, frankly, I'd welcome that. I can't test these myself- I'm going through all of this in advance so no one is caught off guard. We've unfortunately only had one case during testing where someone was unable to run the game, despite testing taking an eternity (hey did you know that we have a bug that basically deletes your party and I still haven't found all the cases of it?) so I can't say for sure if any of this works.

    It also specifically points the angry mob at me.

    Solution 1: Fuck around with windows

    This link has a number of troubleshooting steps you can take to try and trick windows into recognizing that you can run OpenGL 2.0. These may or may not work for you, but it sounds like they are worth a try.

    Solution 2: Slap linux on a USB

    This link will take you to a page that explains how to install ubuntu on a USB. You'll want a decent flash drive for this. It's kind of a pain in the ass to grab an entirely different OS just to run a game, but this option has the best chance of success.

    I made a linux version exclusively so this has a chance to work.

    Solution 3: Slap windows on a USB

    Don't do this. I'm not posting links because they all look sketchy, but you can avoid downgrading operating systems by running windows itself off a flash drive. Just google it. Or don't.

    Solution 4: Slap your current PC in the trash

    This solution isn't a serious one, but technology has really come a long way in the past 10 years. Even modern budget computers are pretty competent.

    Solution 5: Cry

    I don't know. At least it might help you feel better?

    This is frankly something that I, personally, feel pretty awful about. There's technically a non-zero chance that this is something that I can have fixed for v13.5, but that's pretty unlikely; there's so much shit left to do.

     

    Anyway! Back your regularly scheduled, y'know,

    giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47fkc71z5l36jtg5di0y

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    Am I reading this correctly in that Rejuv v13 will ship with a linux version like Reborn? Desolation's game-z has troubles launching on Manjaro, so I was contenting myself with the possibility of a lot of tinkering.

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    I should be fine. Reborn works as normal and I have windows 10. But if my V12 save file won’t carry through, then I guess I’ll have to restart with a new save.

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    11 minutes ago, SteelMemes said:

    Am I reading this correctly in that Rejuv v13 will ship with a linux version like Reborn? Desolation's game-z has troubles launching on Manjaro, so I was contenting myself with the possibility of a lot of tinkering.

    it will. you will have your linux.

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    Since you mentioned v13 save files won't work in v12, do you know if the debug plugin will work in v13?

     

    I'm planning to do a bug monotype run and I was gonna use debug to switch my starter to scyther so I can enjoy scyther for awhile early game, but if debug won't work in v13 then I gotta go make my save file now on v12.

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    32 minutes ago, Vince&Sylveon said:

    I should be fine. Reborn works as normal and I have windows 10. But if my V12 save file won’t carry through, then I guess I’ll have to restart with a new save.

    If I'm reading this right, you should be able to use your V12 savefile in V13 just fine. The only problem comes if you take a V13 savefile and try to go back to V12 - that won't work.

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    1 minute ago, Trumpet of Doom said:

    If I'm reading this right, you should be able to use your V12 savefile in V13 just fine. The only problem comes if you take a V13 savefile and try to go back to V12 - that won't work.

    i'll confirm this. 

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    1 hour ago, andracass said:

    well, this post is basically an advance notice for the release

     

     

    so..................

     

    how advance?

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    Just now, Door Hinges said:

    uh oh i think im in trouble

    sounds like if you get a graphics card you will be fine though, can probably get one good enough for $100 as its not a new tech we need, and really having a graphics card is good for your pc in general and playing other games

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    2 hours ago, Vince&Sylveon said:

    I should be fine. Reborn works as normal and I have windows 10. But if my V12 save file won’t carry through, then I guess I’ll have to restart with a new save.

    I think it's generally recommended that you start a new save anyways so you don't miss out on new content in the earlier game and/or changes to the preexisting content. Don't quote me on that though.

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    5 minutes ago, ThiroSmash said:

    You mean that it's already confirmed or that you're investigating it now?

    your V12 save will work in V13.

    once you save in V13, you can't go back.

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    I think im good then, I think. I got a Windows 10 MSI Gaming Laptop, pretty beefy stuff and I can run Reborn and Deso perfectly A-Ok. So I'm pretty sure im all cool.

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    4 hours ago, Dado said:

    Since you mentioned v13 save files won't work in v12, do you know if the debug plugin will work in v13?

     

    I'm planning to do a bug monotype run and I was gonna use debug to switch my starter to scyther so I can enjoy scyther for awhile early game, but if debug won't work in v13 then I gotta go make my save file now on v12.

    so, I'm not really familiar with how the debug plugin works. I'd assume it doesn't.

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    3 hours ago, Door Hinges said:

    uh oh i think im in trouble

    this is still something that may still be able to be fixed without major purchases

    but, also, I'm sorry things worked out like this.

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    well should be fine here im able to play reborn and deso fine.So i wont have to start over Again xD i would not want to lose all my shiny mons after days of hunting.

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    me with my omen gaming pc: B)

    me when I remember the CPU is completely fried and the PC blue screens once a day: B(

    Edited by MrStormy
    I wrote "gay" instead of "day" lol
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    Even if it works or doesn't work for me, this seems like it's a necessary shift. There's no way I'd ever blame you for trying to make the game run smoother and better Cass! Hoping things can get working for everyone so that they can enjoy the new version, and I appreciate you taking the time to write this message and recommendations.

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    The recent builds of MXKP (the ones with Ruby 3.0) are also compatible with the new M1 chip (ARM-based) Macs, so I'll try to test Rejuv on my M1 macbook air when it releases & inform the Rejuv dev team if I run into any issues.

     

    Thank you for all your hard work, Cass!

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    I doubt I'm one of the people who have to worry about this, but for those who do how serious are the repercussions for downloading v13 and trying to play it anyway if any of the issues you mentioned pop up?  

    I ask because the previous response to those who had concerns in the v13 discussion thread was basically 'get a better computer',

    but now it seems to be a more legitimate concern with unfortunate unforeseen issues seeing as how a dev post needed to be made about it.

    Full disclosure to players and devs; I'm not trying to sound like a dick, that's basically the advice that was given at least from what I interpreted from the previous discussion about a month ago.  And it sounds like you don't have to 'break the bank' or throw out some ridiculous cash in order to obtain a computer good enough to play this game.  There was even a graph given that honestly gave me a chuckle 😆:

    image.png

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    10 minutes ago, Calentz said:

    I doubt I'm one of the people who have to worry about this, but for those who do how serious are the repercussions for downloading v13 and trying to play it anyway if any of the issues you mentioned pop up?  

    I ask because the previous response to those who had concerns in the v13 discussion thread was basically 'get a better computer',

    but now it seems to be a more legitimate concern with unfortunate unforeseen issues seeing as how a dev post needed to be made about it.

    Full disclosure to players and devs; I'm not trying to sound like a dick, that's basically the advice that was given at least from what I interpreted from the previous discussion about a month ago.  And it sounds like you don't have to 'break the bank' or throw out some ridiculous cash in order to obtain a computer good enough to play this game.  There was even a graph given that honestly gave me a chuckle 😆:

    image.png

    That "How?????????????????????????" exageratedly getting out of the bounding box always gets me 🤣

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    Hey, so I'm still kind of confused after reading the post a few times. So my computer uses Windows 10 and I'm able to play the "game-z" files of Reborn and Desolation, am I all set to run the V13 update when it comes out? Sorry again for the dumb question.

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    3 minutes ago, PatchworkUmbral said:

    Hey, so I'm still kind of confused after reading the post a few times. So my computer uses Windows 10 and I'm able to play the "game-z" files of Reborn and Desolation, am I all set to run the V13 update when it comes out? Sorry again for the dumb question.

    According to the post, I think you should be fine, since it says you should be fine if you can run those.

    Edited by Lady Marianne
    wanted to rewrite what i tried to say after rereading the main post again
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    15 hours ago, andracass said:

    well, this post is basically an advance notice for the release

     

     

    so..................

    Can't wait for the 14th (presumably final riddle), and then release probably not long after!!!

    GO GO GO

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    3 hours ago, Calentz said:

    I doubt I'm one of the people who have to worry about this, but for those who do how serious are the repercussions for downloading v13 and trying to play it anyway if any of the issues you mentioned pop up?  

    I ask because the previous response to those who had concerns in the v13 discussion thread was basically 'get a better computer',

    but now it seems to be a more legitimate concern with unfortunate unforeseen issues seeing as how a dev post needed to be made about it.

    Full disclosure to players and devs; I'm not trying to sound like a dick, that's basically the advice that was given at least from what I interpreted from the previous discussion about a month ago.  And it sounds like you don't have to 'break the bank' or throw out some ridiculous cash in order to obtain a computer good enough to play this game.  There was even a graph given that honestly gave me a chuckle 😆:

    image.png

    okay, so, if you zoomed out slightly on that image you'd see my name on it

    so that's awkward!

    but my entire post here is basically an explainer on how this didn't work out; hardware requirements are higher than i originally anticipated due to circumstances that are not in my control

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    2 minutes ago, Between Life and Death said:

    So wait...I haven't been following this for a while. Will this work on a mac without wine? I believe Jan said something about that a week or two ago, but I may be misremembering.

    yup! you can just play on a mac.

    unfortunately it hasn't been tested a whole lot, but in theory it'll work fine.

    2 hours ago, PatchworkUmbral said:

    Hey, so I'm still kind of confused after reading the post a few times. So my computer uses Windows 10 and I'm able to play the "game-z" files of Reborn and Desolation, am I all set to run the V13 update when it comes out? Sorry again for the dumb question.

    if you can run either of the other versions, you're fine.

    4 hours ago, HelpMiiPlease said:

    So just to clarify, I can’t edit the scripts of the game with rpg maker xp anymore? 

    this is going to depend on how we ship the game out. they'll be editable somehow, though.

    (also i'd recommend using gemini or a similar program. the rmxp script editor is awful)

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    In my experience there's been an issue with running the mkxp port for Rejuvenation where it would sometimes crash when trying to load an area. Buildings, switching areas in cutscenes, that kind of thing. I'm just curious if that will still be an issue with MKXP for V13

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    is their a difference in gameplay between game and game-z. I've always just used the first one, I can use both it looks like, but z takes slightly longer to load

     

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    20 minutes ago, BlueStar124 said:

    is their a difference in gameplay between game and game-z. I've always just used the first one, I can use both it looks like, but z takes slightly longer to load

     

    Game-z runs smoother

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    8 hours ago, andracass said:

    yup! you can just play on a mac.

    unfortunately it hasn't been tested a whole lot, but in theory it'll work fine.

    if you can run either of the other versions, you're fine.

    this is going to depend on how we ship the game out. they'll be editable somehow, though.

    (also i'd recommend using gemini or a similar program. the rmxp script editor is awful)


    not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but what is Gemini? I can’t find it on google.

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    1 hour ago, HelpMiiPlease said:


    not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but what is Gemini? I can’t find it on google.

    https://sourceforge.net/projects/geminieditor/

    the scripts are compressed text files in a ruby array, and this basically just unpacks them.

    we're considering going to external scripts, though, in which case you can just use whatever text editor you want to view them.

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    23 hours ago, Shadowrunner211 said:

    In my experience there's been an issue with running the mkxp port for Rejuvenation where it would sometimes crash when trying to load an area. Buildings, switching areas in cutscenes, that kind of thing. I'm just curious if that will still be an issue with MKXP for V13

     

    This port was also somewhat rushed and unofficial as we ourselves didn't have direct involvement in it; the actual official port will come with a ton of fixes across the board that should improve overall gameplay experience and (hopefully) won't cause crashes!

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    13 hours ago, Zumi said:

     

    This port was also somewhat rushed and unofficial as we ourselves didn't have direct involvement in it; the actual official port will come with a ton of fixes across the board that should improve overall gameplay experience and (hopefully) won't cause crashes!

    The work you've all done is really unimaginable when it comes to the actual depth of how much you've done for this V13 release. Thanks to all the developers for making this happen. Very excited! 

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    50 minutes ago, BJ7171 said:

    When I run reborns game-z file it works but every few seconds the game freezes for a moment, will this problem also occur in v13?

    no idea. i haven't heard much about this happening before, so it might be a specific issue with your computer

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    What exacly happends if the CPU doesn't work properly like you were mention it?

    The game doesn't start?

    The game crashes out of nowhere?

    The game starts but there are WAY more glitches than normal?

     

    I tried to play but sometimes out of nowhere some wierd visual glitches happend, and i lost the 1º battle and something strange happend.

    Is this my computer not running well or the glitches are the expected for a new game?

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    On 7/17/2021 at 7:48 AM, Pata733 said:

    What the thing that I drop in my game folder?

    Edit: What the DLL and where do I find it?

    You can find a opengl32.dll on the Reborn Discord. It's one of the pinned post on #v13-crashes. I have no idea if it will solve your problems, but it allowed me to run on my really old hardware.

    Edit: Also just drop it on the same folder of Game.exe

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    Joiplay got updated,  probably just for betas(not sure about this)

    And it says "added support for mkxp-z based games with ruby 3. Games must contain mkxp.json and Plugins folder to be detected as a mkxp-z game"

    I just saw that mkxp.json is in the patch, so may I ask what is the plugins folder joiplay is talking about? The game doesn't still work only with mkxp.json

    Screenshot_20210722-011046_Google Play Store.jpg

    Screenshot_20210722-173938_JoiPlay.jpg

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    23 minutes ago, andracass said:

    idk. joiplay isn't my problem.

    Oh well, thx anyways. I'll just wait till i discharge so i can play it on my computer

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    idk if this has been asked or not, because I couldn't find anything when I looked around here, but is it possible to transfer save files from windows to Mac? because v13 can't run on the PC I have but my save files are on there so I'm thinking on just playing the latest version on my Mac.

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    5 hours ago, pikabusta said:

    idk if this has been asked or not, because I couldn't find anything when I looked around here, but is it possible to transfer save files from windows to Mac? because v13 can't run on the PC I have but my save files are on there so I'm thinking on just playing the latest version on my Mac.

    you should be able to go to your save folder on windows, copy your save file, and drop it into the folder on mac.

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    10 hours ago, andracass said:

    you should be able to go to your save folder on windows, copy your save file, and drop it into the folder on mac.

     

    ok thank you. although right now, I have no idea how to run the game on Mac using Wine. :((

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    17 hours ago, pikabusta said:

     

    ok thank you. although right now, I have no idea how to run the game on Mac using Wine. :((

    there is a mac version! try it

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    4 hours ago, andracass said:

    there is a mac version! try it

     

    tried it, still not working for me. found a thread and apparently I'm not the only one with the same problem. :(

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  • Old Content:

    #################### | Map Updates (10%)

    #################### | Script Updates (0%)

    #################### | Misc (0%)

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    #################### | Total (3%)

     

    New Content: 

    #################### | Story (0%)

    #################### | Sidequests (0%)

    #################### | Scripting (0%)

    --------------------------------------------------

    #################### | Total (0%)

     

    Gen 8 DLC:

    #################### | Battle Sprites (0%)

    #################### | Moves (0%)

    #################### | Items (0%)

    #################### | Rosters (0%)

    #################### | Encounters (0%)

    --------------------------------------------------

    #################### | Total (0%)

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    #################### |V13.5 Total Completion (1%)

     

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