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Melia's Aegislash is ridiculous..


MhicKy
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I've already replayed v13 two times and I'm in my third playthrough and this fight is always in my head as one of the WORSTS in the whole game.. Previously to this it was the top of the Mount Valor fight against Gaera and Zetta but this one takes the cake by a LOOONG shot and that Aegislash is the main issue..

So firstly, Aegislash, a Pokemon that in the UBER tier for a reason.. Massive bulk in defense mode, allowing it to set up moves like Sword Dance without worry, King's Shield lowers the enemy Attack and S.Attack on contact and massive Attack and S.Attack in offensive mode, on top of being difficult to predict but the Pokemon itself isn't the main issue, Aegislash isn't a god and has ways to counter it and that would be fine and dandy if it wasn't for one little details, the GODAMN field (Fairy Tale Field)!

So let's talk about the Fairy Tale Field (I will highlight the ones that are the main issue in relation to her Aegislash to keep this "short"):
- Fire-type attacks gain Dragon-typing: Since one of the main weaknesses of Aegislash is fire this is a massive boost to it making fire-types very unreliable in this fight meaning they're only really effective against her Hydreigon but the main issue is -1 weakness to Aegislash meaning that the only weakness it now has are Dark, Ghost and Ground (And Ghost isn't really a good idea against it).
- The move Sacred Sword becomes Steel-type: Meaning that, one, it now deals STAB with it and, two, it gets boosted by the 1.5x damage on Steel moves the field provides, for the mathematicians out there, riddle me this, 150 base Attack, the move deals 90 base damage, gets the bonus 1.5x from the field and another 1.5x from STAB, in shorts, this alone can OHKO even pokemons that resist it..
- King's Shield protects from ALL moves, even non-attacking ones: Ah yes! Let's get the only weakness the King's Shield move has and totally remove it! It will be balance, I swear!
- King's Shield additionally lowers an attacker's Special Attack 2 stages on contact: So we have this move that is completely OP and one of the main reasons Aegislash is in the UBER tier, we already made it able to block everything.. What else we do? Ah, yes! DOUBLE the debuffs! Like.. Whatahell, Jan Azery?!

- The stat changing effect of Sword Dance is amplified: OK so Aegislash is already pretty OP on defense, we should stop here, right? WRONG! Let's make it OP in damage too by getting 2x boost on Sword Dance! So one single Sword Dance boost his damage by 3x!!!

At this point I have to ask why Jan Azery also didn't treat it as a rift Pokemon and gave it 6 shield bars too.. 
Anyway for the people stumped on this, here is the best way I figured to counter it but still relies on a bit of RNG..

Spoiler

So basically I try to switch to my Boltung whenever she sends in the Togekiss, then use Nuzzle, she will switch the Togekiss to Aegislash, the first Nuzzle will hit the shield but no matter just use it again to paralyze it then switch to a Steelix (EVs MUST be 252 Attack and Defense), if it paralyzes, nice, if it doesn't it will tank the Sacred Sword with a little more than 50% HP then you need to use Earthquake AND pray that it will get paralyzed since it will be on the offensive stance it will get OHKOed by it but, if it doesn't paralyze, try again until it does..


-EDIT-
Forgot to add, it already comes in with a King's Shield protection, meaning it gets a free turn where it's completely immune to EVERYTHING

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21 minutes ago, gilam said:

you play on intense, no items' set mode .......?

how you win?

Mix of planning, cheese and suffering. I did play it on Intense Set/No items and it's probably the worst fight in the game because of the field, yeah. Naturally there are ways to win but this fight is just objectively bad because of the field. 

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15 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Mix of planning, cheese and suffering. I did play it on Intense Set/No items and it's probably the worst fight in the game because of the field, yeah. Naturally there are ways to win but this fight is just objectively bad because of the field. 

Yeah, I listed all the things that makes that Aegislash complete bullshit..
It's like Jan wanted that Aegislash to be some sort of final boss.. The damn thing is already a UBER tier for a reason for crying out loud.. Did it really need all these boosts?!

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When I saw Melia’s Aegislash in Fairy Tale Field, it’s also nostalgic to me due to Titania’s Aegislash in Pokémon Reborn. Similarly, our team was level 85 when dealing with both Aegislash (Melia’s Aegislash is around level 82-86 depending on difficulty while Titania’s Aegislash is level 90). If I struggle to deal with Melia’s Aegislash even on casual, then that would mean that I would struggle to get Titania’s badge. Not sure if both of their Aegislash correlate.

 

Edit 1: Aegislash was slightly nerfed during the transition from Gen VII to Gen VIII (and dropped from Uber to UU), with their base stats that used to be 150 be 140 instead and King’s Shield lowering attack by 1 stage than 2 stages. But under the fairy tale field, Aegislash is still super strong. Also Titania’s Aegislash wasn’t nerfed - since E18 was released around August 2018 - because it kept the Gen VII traits (150 offenses/defenses and dropping attack by 2 stages), so I guess Titania’s Aegislash is actually stronger than Melia’s.

 

Edit 2: I believe what Melia sets it apart from Titania is that on Intense, a Pokémon can have more than 510 total EVs. Since Melia’s Aegislash has 252/252/252/0/252/0, while the offenses are the same, Aegislash’s bulk has been maximized (252 HP, 252 Def, and 252 SpD), making it sturdier than Titania’s, causing certain attacks that would’ve been a OHKO become a 2HKO instead. At this point, I don’t know who’s Aegislash is stronger, but it’s leaning towards Melia’s.

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the main issue with the fight is that both mimikyu and aegislash have seeds which gives them a free turn, once you find a way to get past that (which admittedly isnt very easy lol) the fight isnt that much harder than the usual

 

aegislash is pretty easy to counter once you learn how to play around it, its frail in offense mode (hell even in defense mode it goes down pretty easily because of its hp, its just a matter of ohko vs 2hko) so any ghost type that can take one shadow sneak will kill easily. kings shield is also very easy to predict because the ai pretty much always uses it against strong offensive mons

 

alternatively you can set up screens or burn it and its basically dead weight, prankster sableye pretty much singlehandedly destroys half of her team with will-o, recover and foul play

 

yes the fight is hard but its certainly not harder than saki or even geara

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You do realise that,,, Jan doesn't make the battle team sets and rejuv didnt create the Fairy Tale field. So stop yelling at them i stg people lmaO

 

The Aegi really isnt the worst provided you have a nice counter. It honestly isn't that bad, people are just not used to fighting on the field/vs an Aegi.

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@bloww, technically that Mimikyu has 2 free turns because of it's Disguise ability as well.. But yeah, I forgot to put that in the list of BSs.. The fact it enters with a free turn and the worst part is that it's a King's Shield protection too meaning that removing it will lower you Attack and S.Attack by 2 stages..

@Cerise, darling I am not "shouting" at Jan.. I do think this was poorly though out but I ain't really mad about it, it's a critique, that Aegislash really doesn't need all of those boosts.. Just feel like this needs to be addressed and no, I didn't knew that Jan wasn't the one fixing the balancing.. Then I guess I have this Azery to thank to and also, yes, I know the FTF was created on Reborn, I just don't like the fact it's being used here, I hated Titania as a gym leader because of that field and seeing it on Rejuvenation back again is giving me PTSD.. 

And AND the best part of it all is that Melia doesn't even bring her Aegislash when we do her path in chapter 15! What a teeease!!

@Mei-o_Scarlett, lol nice!
I also stalled a lot with my Umbreon too.. Tho' I did spam Ultra Potions..

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3 minutes ago, wcv said:

Just to note, Aegislash is currently in Under Used. Not Uber.

That's strange.. It got nerfed 10 points in Def and S.def/Atk and S.Atk and it goes down all the way to UU from Uber?!
At least OU would've been understandable but UU?! Don't make no sense to me.. 

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Its not that it became weak, it's just meta changed. Do not make a common mistake of directly comparing smogon tier with power. It is based on usage, meaning he is just used less, there are many reasons for that, like gen 8 pokemon being a very bad environment for him and others. 

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I like how in every topic there is a bunch of those "experts" that try to show off their basic pokemon knowledge. Yeah, everyone is aware there are counters and ways to beat it, yeah, everyone has done that. It doesnt make a fight fair or well design. 

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Agieslash isnt really a problem for me, (i play casual so i don't know if its different in any other difficulty) But whenever i fight one it almost always alternates between attacking and using kings shield similar to how other AI uses protect stall strats, so I just use a special attacking fire type (like Crest Typholsion with eruption, there are better ones but this one worked really well) or anything that can use non contact moves like earthquake or buldoze.

 

It does seem hard at first but when you really look at it and bring the right pokemon, its not much of a threat.

 

But these aren't words form an expert but an idiot so who knows if im right?

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35 minutes ago, MhicKy said:

That's strange.. It got nerfed 10 points in Def and S.def/Atk and S.Atk and it goes down all the way to UU from Uber?!
At least OU would've been understandable but UU?! Don't make no sense to me.. 

Heavy Duty boots massively boosted fire types, which was huge. Cinderace in particular annihilates it. Add it just got crushed in OU by Mandibuzz, Hippowdon, and Urshifu. Even down in UU G-Moltres beats it solidly.

 

37 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Its not that it became weak, it's just meta changed. Do not make a common mistake of directly comparing smogon tier with power. It is based on usage, meaning he is just used less, there are many reasons for that, like gen 8 pokemon being a very bad environment for him and others. 

Yep. Aegislash was Uber in Gen 6 and 7 for a fair number of reasons, but tiering isn't a be all, end all of power.

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1 minute ago, Mionee said:

Not too sure why trying to help is met with such passive aggressiveness, but you do you my dude.

Because no one asked for help nor needed it in this topic, nor there was any impications about needing it. However in every topic like this people still come with their "actually, it's very easy, you just do that and that". Yeah, everyone know. This discussion isnt about that. 

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8 minutes ago, wcv said:

Heavy Duty boots massively boosted fire types, which was huge. Cinderace in particular annihilates it. Add it just got crushed in OU by Mandibuzz, Hippowdon, and Urshifu. Even down in UU G-Moltres beats it solidly.

Yeah but in this case the Boots can't be obtained and Fire-type moves become Dragon-type so Cinderace really doesn't have much going on here..
Again, it's mostly the field problem.. I said above "He isn't a god, there's ways to counter" but the field just makes it way harder..

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30 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

Because no one asked for help nor needed it in this topic, nor there was any impications about needing it. However in every topic like this people still come with their "actually, it's very easy, you just do that and that". Yeah, everyone know. This discussion isnt about that. 

 

Yeah, everyone knows. That's why the OP is trying to use a Steelix and praying for parahax. I see.

 

The entire post is about that one pokemon even. Not the field in general, just how it affects Aegislash. Not the "bad game design" or whatever else, just their (legitimate) frustrations with how Aegislash is hard to deal with. But yeah, sure, the discussion isn't about giving tips against it, and the OP totally didn't end with an attempt at giving a way to deal with Aegislash.

 

Ah, well, whatever.

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12 minutes ago, Cyphre said:

wcv was talking generally about gen 8 and why Aegi fell down. 

Yeah, I get that, was just saying that these don't apply to that situation in particular, which is the one bothering me..

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