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[E19] Thoughts and speculations (SPOILERS)


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Hello everyone !

Considering how good Pokémon Reborn is, waiting for E19 always remains a bit harsh in a sense, so I think the best way to make the time less long is trying to figure out what is gonna happen in the ultimate episode, considering all the elements we already have in our side.

So here are my thought and predictions about E19, your return would be gladly appreciated, even more if you don't agree with some points I submit. I will try to bring my own approach and not to be redundant with what have been said already in previous threads.

Obviously, this thread will contain MASSIVE spoilers, so before going further, make sure you have already finished the game as of E18.

 

 

So there we go. First off about the scenario from Hardy's gym to Saphira's one. It's impossible to figure out exactly what is gonna happen in this frame, especially with Team Meteor and the plot splits, but maybe it is indeed possible to read in the big lines. I can imagine that right after the fight against Hardy, you will find him in Calcenon, when he will figure a way, with the help of Eve, Lumi, and maybe Charlotte and Saphira, or Laura and Bennett, to fight and destroy or desactivate the PULSE Mime, so you can reach Labradorra City after that (Route 5 between it ?). That implies many fights against Team Meteor and at the end, saving Aya from a new hideout I guess. Who are you gonna fight exactly, it is hard to say, but the Connal's lore with his sister seems at a dead point since many episodes, so maybe we could expect to obtain the last pieces of his puzzle, with a double fight alongside Sirius ?

 

Obviously, Team Meteor will still be there in Labradorra and I expect from them a massive presence in the city. How are we gonna chase them out of the city, I don't have any idea of it. But I know Terra actually comes from Labradorra, and it would make sense to me seeing her freed from her computer issues and help Team Meteor in any way I could not describe. 

 

Then the fight against Saphira. I think the Dragon's Den and Dragonite in her team make a consensus. No doubt Mega Zard X will be her Mega, considering how good it is on this field, with Fire and Dragon moves boosts, and the Dragon Dance buff. For the rest of her team, she is badass and she is the last gym leader, so I cannot imagine her without others pseudos than her Dragonite. Garchomp (Solaris, Terra), Hydreigon (Lin) and Salamence (Heather) are not good candidates at all, so I argue the 2 last remaining (Goodra and Kommo-o) will be in her team, even if Cal could technically have a Kommo-o, I think it will fight with its Z signature, making Saphira the only gym leader to use both Z move and Mega in a same fight. It is pretty clear to me that Saphira will give us the TM for Dragon Claw, as it is the only Dragon TM currently unavailable in the game, so even though the only mon using Dark Pulse against Luna was her Umbreon, so that means nothing, I can easily imagine a Dragon Claw spam in her team. Dragonite and Zard-X obviously, maybe Kommo-o, but maybe also others physical attackers ? My eyes are on Tyrantrum and Haxorus (already held by Fern) mainly, maybe a suicide lead Druddigon ? I also don't neglect the possibility of a Naganadel in her team for the Fairy stuff, which would be terrifying.

 

 

About the Elite 4 now, after being able to climb the summit of the Charous Mountain. There is no mystery on its members in my eyes, just think Stones. At the end of the E18, Amethyst is held by Anna, Emerald is held by Elias, Sapphire is held by Laura and Ruby is held by Heather. They are all gonna be part of the Elite, I have no doubt, even less if you consider that they are with Lin the four only major people you didn't fight yet (Dittoceus doesn't count).

The only part of doubt remaining is about which role is Bennett gonna play with Laura in the Elite. Because he is gonna play a role, 100%. I saw most of people thinking they will be both part of the Elite, and it's true that the Flower Garden field suits perfectly to a Grass or Bug team, even more in double. But I personally don't believe in this scenario, there is a place for only one, and I don't think any love story between them will be able to make them both part of the Elite 5 (?). I have a bigger belief on the theory that the member will depend on the path you chose (Zekrom/Reshiram, maybe another plot split ?), but I didn't see any word on the theory which is the most plausible in my eyes, and makes the most sense to me. Don't forget that the Bennett's main pattern during the game is to fight you right before a gym fight against a leader he is related in any way. First Serra his mother, then Luna his crush. I can easily see him looping the loop just before the fight against Laura. Like "Hey, hold on, wait a minute ! *entering on the flower garden* I would like to fight you before you fight Laura for any reason blah blah blah !". Mark my words, I seriously bet on this scenario. Of course I could totally be wrong, but we fought him twice already, and that would sound weird to me if we have to fight him a third time as an Elite member.

 

Then the fight against Bennett would begin. A double battle would make much sense considering the field. I 100% see a Mega-Pinsir (even though Beedrill is still a possibility) and a Volcarona in his team, obviously. Don't have many ideas for the others remaining. Scizor ? Maybe. But just like Fern, Solaris already holds one, Titania even has a Mega, so why not but not pretty sure. Maybe Golisopod, Ribombee, Heracross, Vikavolt, Scolipede, don't know, wait and see.

 

If this scenario is correct you should fight Laura right after that. Double battle, 100%. She is known to have a Liligant, so I expect this mon in her team, also Venusaur as a Mega. I know Aya has already a Venusaur but I hardly imagine a M-Abomasnow of even a M-Sceptile. Tsareena looks also awesome for her, same for Whimsicott which has a ridiculous Petal Blizzard with a priority and hitting like a truck with Nature Power at lvl 5 Garden. Leavanny will be either in her Team or in Bennett's one, hard to say.

 

Heather now, who will be fought on the Mountain Field, maybe with strong winds naturally and maybe in Double, not sure about that. Salamence without a doubt, Corey's Crobat without a doubt, Drifblim without a doubt (which is highly related to the Beryl area, plus just take a look at its offensive arsenal on this field and even more with SW, Icy Wind, Omnious Wind, Thunder, it could be terrifying). I saw everybody consider a Mega-Salamence without a question, I would not be so definitive. Besides Solaris, Ciel and maybe Arclight, none of the characters have their Mega as their ace, and I think it is gonna be the same for her. I can definitely imagine a Telluric Seed (+1 Attack -1 Accuracy on this field) Salamence with Aerial Ace to be sure to hit, which would be pretty decent in my eyes. About the Mega, if what I said from the beggining is true, M-Blastoise would be held by Amaria (only in double battle in Reshiram path), M-Venusaur by Laura and M-Charizard X by Saphira. So I argue Heather is gonna have the last Mega Kantonian starter, M-Charizard Y. Even though it would die to any rock move, it can summon sun for the last 8 turns on the mountain field, I see a set with Solar Beam, Roost, Air Slash and any special Fire STAB. If not, maybe M-Pidgeot ? For the last mons, maybe like Mandibuzz, Skarmory ? I would say Talonflamme, but as I already bet on Zard-Y, besides the Ciel's one, that would make very few sense.

 

About Elias, fought on the Holy Field (Single) : I see a majority of special attackers obviously. Not sure if Ditto is gonna be part of his team, but I cannot imagine his team without these 3 following mons : Drampa, Oranguru and Audino as a Mega. Drampa hits like an insane truck with its STABs on this field, has an access to Nature Power which becomes a field boosted JUDGEMENT, and it can even hold a plate, the one of its choice (as Elias is a priest of Arceus that would make sense), with Hyper Voice as its Normal STAB alongside. Terryfing. Oranguru also has its STABs boosted, and can also learn Nature Power. Boosted STABs also for M-Audino, with a Wish buff on the Evander Holy Field. It suits very well to Elias and his personality, much more than Kangashkan, Pidgeot or Lopunny. Same with Oranguru, we feel the religious theme in both cases. Aside from that, Pyroar would make much sense, maybe Snorlax, Diggersby ? Also, a Normal/Flying like Braviary would be welcome to bypass Fighting types, in addition to Oranguru.

 

Last but not least, Anna, on the Starlight Arena (Single). Maybe I am totally wrong, but I prefer have in mind that Nostra, as a legendary, won't be part of her team, unless not before a rematch. Maybe it is quite a bit naive considering how insane would Jirachi be on this field, but I would rather consider a M-Metagross as a Psychic/Steel, which could also be unmessable, and would make a link with her father Radomus who also has a Metagross. About her ace, correct me if I say BS, but I think Gothitelle is known to be the one ? If so, I defenitely see it in her team. Just like Starmie, very few doubts about this one. Its spatial theme is perfect for Anna, and Illuminate makes it very powerful. For the last mons, maybe some things like Alakazam, Gardevoir, Jynx for Aurora Veil, dunno.

 

 

Well at this point no doubt that the unofficial champion would be Lin, but before that I see a bunch of scenaristic plot, and it brings an important point. I imagine a stuff like, Lin will manage to access to Citae Astrae Aerie and summon whatever which makes chaos and New World, without any need of the four stones, thanks to the stuff she stole underwater in Agate. When you come to battle the Elite 4, the members will be like "Fight me and if you beat me, that means you are the only hope being able to stop Lin and save Reborn/the world, then I will give you my respective stone (just like a badge), so you can also enter to Citae Astrae Aerie and fight Lin if you beat each of us.". Yea even Elias for some scenaristic reasons, maybe you don't let him the choice after all.

After beating all of them, you are leaving the Charous Mountain and going back to Citae Astrae Aerie with your stones to stop Lin, across some puzzles and scenario I would not be able to predict. Then at the top of the spot, you fight her on the New World field with her Hydreigon and others mons (no idea which ones, maybe some busted legendaries like Zekrom/Reshiram depending on your path ?), then you beat her, then you stop her New World shenanigans, then maybe she dies (fingers are crossed), then Samson/Ciel is saved from his/her blackhole, and then you are finally crowned as the new Champion of Reborn after saving the region and beating the Elite 4 and the one who beat the last Champion Ame, and allowed to keep definitely the four stones as the Champion and protector of Reborn. That looks like a pretty realistic final to me, and I would be even more curious to read your opinion on this point than on the rest of this thread.

 

 

About the post-game legendary locations, the least important point, I cannot see plenty of them. Probably Arceus at Citae Astrae Aerie, Darkrai and/or Diancie at the Iolia Valley, Articuno at the top of Ametrine Mountain, Zapdos outside of the Beryl power plant and Moltres at the top of the Pyrous Mountain. Otherwise I can definitely see a legendary in the Charous Mountain, maybe two, no idea which one, maybe Rayquaza if it is not at the Teknite Ridge whereas Ho-Oh actually is. Finally, I didn't see it noticed in any previous threads, but I would be extremely astonished if the Chrysolia Spring is not the place where you encounter Volcanion. Which place would be better for a steam-themed Pokémon, which is Fire/Water ?

 

 

That was long but I think I made the turn of the question. Really look forward to the E19 release, great game.

Edited by RocketOSullivan
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Nice - in detail, we have much more room to speculate for much greater inaccuracy. As for the general view, the above does seem like a highly possible, if not the only possible, path. I'd still place my bet for Laura+Bennet double battle tough. Laura's stone stands for love (and the relationship points would alter only his team members, if anything).

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I think similar posts have been made in the past, but what the hell, it's always fun to indulge. I think you're right about a lot of things. My thoughts -


1. Another reason Mega Charizard X makes a lot of sense for Saphira is that her mother was a Fire type trainer. We also get the Charizardite X from the quest in her mother's gym.


2. Considering that we do have to fight multiple legendary mons throughout the game, I wouldn't consider it a stretch for the elite 4 to have legendaries. I also feel that there has to be something that differentiates them from the gym leaders, and legendaries make the most sense. So if you ask me, I would guess each of them to have 1 lower-tier legendary -

  • Anna: Jirachi
  • Elias: Meloetta
  • Laura: Shaymin
  • Heather: Landorus (not sure, could also be one of the other genies or even Zapdos)
  • Bennett: Genesect

 

3.
For Heather's mega, I would favour Mega Pidgeot over Mega Charizard Y because she could have Talonflame (Gale Wings + Tailwind).
It's possible for Elias to have Togekiss (Fairy type, Normal + Psychic coverage, Ancient Power boost).
If Bennett fights alongside Laura, Parasect makes sense for him to have as it gets Rototiller.
Cherrim makes sense for Laura.
Lin used to be a Dragon type leader in the original Reborn league, so I expect her to have at least a couple of Dragons. Naganadel and Kyurem make sense. Naganadel because Poipole can apparently be found in the Reborn temple area and Kyurem because it is supposed to be an evil dragon. I would also expect her to have at least another Dark type like Hoopa.

 

4. Of course, all the above speculation assumes that the mons will be of the preferred type of the trainer, but that may not necessarily be the case (e.g. Noel has Clefable, Ciel has mega Altaria, the teams of Fern and Connal change drastically etc.).

 

5. The dream that Hardy has in the Glass factory could be foreshadowing of what happens in the climax of the story. I remember something about all the gym leaders banding together with the PC and fighting against Lin.

 

6. As for the locations for legendaries, here's my list -

  • Heatran: Pyrous cave
  • Regirock: Tourmaline Desert
  • Registeel: Teknite caves
  • Regigigas: Mysidia railcave
  • Diancie: Iolia valley
  • Ultra beasts / Necrozma: Reborn temple side quests
  • Celebi: Chrysolia forest
  • Tapu Bulu: Rhodocrine jungle
  • Volcanion: Chrysolia spring
  • Moltres: Pyrous mountain
  • Articuno: Ametrine mountain
  • Zapdos: Abandoned power plant
  • Mew: Byxbision wall event
  • Deoxys: Teknite ridge
  • Uxie/Azelf/Mesprit: Tanzan cove
  • Giratina: Byxbision wasteland
  • Arceus: Reborn temple
  • Groudon: Tourmaline desert
  • Lugia: Ametrine depths
  • Kyogre: Azurine lake
  • Virizion: Malchous forest
  • Regice: Citrine cave
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Yeah sorry if I have been repetitive with the statements already made in the past, I tried to put the accent on things that I didn't read yet, and develop my thoughts about theories where people seem to be unanimous generally, then explain why I have a different point of view on some of these questions. For example the point was more saying that Heather would not have Salamance as a Mega, than saying that Heather will have a Salamence, which what is pretty obvious to everybody.

 

1- You are totally right to underline it. For that reason, Mega Charizard X makes even more sense.

 

2- Yes Meloetta suits perfectly to Elias, I thought about it. Furthermore I guess a duplicate of Normal/Psychic would be perfectly fine, as both types are excellent on the Holy Field, they can handle Fighting mons easily and their only weakness with Bug (Dark) is absolute trash.

Air Shaymin for Laura ?

 

3- Yes Cherrim makes plenty of sense on Laura, dunno how I could forget it.

VERY fair point for Lin. A Naganadel for her makes indeed much more sense than for Saphira. As an evil Dragon, I thought more about Giratina, which could also have a broken Levitate on the New World Field. Same thing about Yveltal over Hoopa (did you say Madame X. ?!).

 

4- Correct me if I am wrong, but was gen 6 not released yet when the episode of the fight against Noel has been released for the first time ? If so, Clefable was still a Normal type in gen 5, and maybe Ame did not want to remove his ace, that is the reason why I cannot imagine a Togekiss for Elias. Altaria is still related to Flying type in a way even if it loses it post-Mega. Fern as only a reserve leader, is not required to use a single type, even if his preference for Grass has no contestation. Same thing for Blake, Cal and even Cain. This statement could apply to Bennett too.

 

6- Pretty ok with your list, I add that I could certify that one legendary will be found Once Upon a Somewhere, but which one ? Shaymin ? Another fabulous ? A Fairy one ? MAGEARNA obviously ! 

Edited by RocketOSullivan
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Yeah sorry if I have been repetitive with the statements already made in the past

No problem. I also mentioned that because if you're interested, there's a wealth of info and speculation in those other posts.
For instance here:

https://www.rebornevo.com/forums/topic/33012-elite-4-and-the-champion-of-reborn/page/2/

and here: https://www.rebornevo.com/forums/topic/37911-elite-trainers-and-where-to-find-them-reborn-theory/

 

Quote

Air Shaymin for Laura ?

Possibly. Offensively it's more threatening.

 

Quote

As an evil Dragon, I thought more about Giratina, which could also have a broken Levitate on the New World Field. Same thing about Yveltal over Hoopa (did you say Madame X. ?!).

Yes, all fair points. Giratina actually makes a lot more sense now that I think about. All the hints and foreshadowing throughout the game could suggest that Giratina might be one of the main antagonistic legendaries from a story point-of-view.

 

Quote

Correct me if I am wrong, but was gen 6 not released yet when the episode of the fight against Noel has been released for the first time ?

Yes, Gen 6 was not released when the episode with the the Noel battle was released. But Ame decided to stick with Clefable for the later episodes also. This is in contrast to some other cases where the aces were actually changed (e.g. Shade's Chandelure was changed to Mimikyu). So if Ame really wanted to stick to the typing of the gym leaders, she could have changed Noel's ace.

 

Quote

that is the reason why I cannot imagine a Togekiss for Elias. Altaria is still related to Flying type in a way even if it losses it post-Mega. Fern as only a reserve leader, is not required to use a single type, even if his preference for Grass has no contestation. Same thing for Blake, Cal and even Cain. This statement could apply to Bennett too.

You may be right. But apart from the examples you mentioned, I was also thinking of Arclight, Radomus, Serra and Luna. In the Devon battle, despite being an Electric specialist, only half of Arclight's mons were Electric. The rest were Sound-based mons. In the Glass factory gauntlet, all the gym leaders used mons outside their type specialty. One explanation for this could be that none of these were official league battles. So if we face these characters in official matches, they could have a full type-based team.

 

But there's also the possibility that all the elite trainers will use theme teams or dual-type teams. [After Bennet's successful acceptance in the E4, Ame mentions taking note of Bennet's 'types', not type.] I also like the possibility of facing different E4 members based on the decisions you make.

 

Quote

I add that I could certify that one legendary will be found Once Upon a Somewhere, but which one ? Shaymin ? Another fabulous ? A Fairy one ? MAGEARNA obviously ! 

Magearna definitely makes the most sense! (Steel + Fairy)

 

Two things I forgot to mention -
1. Lin could have a Pulse mon (apart from the pulse EV-boosted mons).
2. It's still possible (albeit unlikely) for Arclight or some of the others to be elite 4 members.

 

 

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Yes those posts deserve to be quoted, I already read them and the statements are very relevant.

 

Maybe Shade's ace was changed not to outshadow Sirius ? I guess the only two characters who share the same ace are currently Solaris and Terra ? Or maybe it is because Ame wanted to give a spot to a highly iconic 7g mon as Mimikyu ?

 

That is true about the glass factory gauntlet. I thought it was possible that some mons have been lent to each other to diversify the teams, for example the Luna's Bisharp to Radomus. I even suspected Radomus' Clef to belong to Noel and Luna's Gothitelle to belong to Anna, even if they were sleeping first floor, with Nostra running aroud you never know. That would not explain Luna's Mismagius though.

I think Arclight is more like an unofficial dual electric/sound specialist than a pure electric one. 

And to continue in that way, we could also have a talk about Aya's Lycanroc offered by Hardy.

 

Arclight would be a good candidate to the Elite if we did not fight him once and if he held a stone.

 

Yeah Lin would probably fight us with the Arc PULSE, who knows, I prefer not to think about that.

 

One other thing I did not mention previously, I can argue that like Radomus, Elias is gonna be a Trick Room fighter. Oranguru can learn it, and the mons I mentioned in his team including Oranguru are pretty slow. A Drampa on the Holy Field and under Trick Room looks really devastating. That gives also some credit to the hypothesis of a Snorlax or even Diggersby.

 

Edited by RocketOSullivan
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On 11/15/2020 at 3:06 PM, Egzample said:

Nice - in detail, we have much more room to speculate for much greater inaccuracy. As for the general view, the above does seem like a highly possible, if not the only possible, path. I'd still place my bet for Laura+Bennet double battle tough. Laura's stone stands for love (and the relationship points would alter only his team members, if anything).

Thinking that such a brillant girl is gonna finish with a jerk like Bennett hurts me.

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On 11/16/2020 at 3:48 PM, RocketOSullivan said:

Thinking that such a brillant girl is gonna finish with a jerk like Bennett hurts me.

Laura is an e-girl, and Bennet is the nice guy-discord mod. I don't like that couple

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Really, it's great to see the love for the plot and upcoming fights by you guys. :)

 

that said I'm digging into most of your suspections but one.

I do not think there will be a classic elite4 fight. Considering the deep diversions between the possible elite members, especially Elias vs the others, I can not imagine them just pretending everything's fine and we're all pals now...

No I'm betting on maybe 1 or 2 new characters making their debut in E19 as elite members.

 

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6 hours ago, Conkeldurp said:

I do not think there will be a classic elite4 fight. Considering the deep diversions between the possible elite members, especially Elias vs the others, I can not imagine them just pretending everything's fine and we're all pals now...

 

This is true. That's why some people theorise that the elite four will change depending on the story choices. For example Heather, Laura, Arclight & Anna could be the E4 in the 'ideal' ending and Blake, Bennet, Fern & Elias could be the E4 in the 'true' ending. This way the E4 will either be a team that fights against Lin or a team that fights for Lin.

 

Quote

No I'm betting on maybe 1 or 2 new characters making their debut in E19 as elite members.

 

It's possible, but the main problem I see with this theory is that all the main characters (with the exception of Sirius, Solaris, ZEL and Taka) are based off of the actual people from the original online league [This is stated by Ame]. And to my knowledge, all the characters from the online league have already been revealed in the game.

 

One possibility I see is the mention of an unfamiliar character in the Jasper ward prophecy. If this character does exist but has somehow vanished from the current timeline, she could reappear in the final story arc and could end up being an E4 member.

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Agreed, I don't see a classic E4 fight either. Maybe a possibility to heal your team and access to a pc between the fights ?

 

On 11/19/2020 at 2:39 PM, Progfan_r said:

This is true. That's why some people theorise that the elite four will change depending on the story choices. For example Heather, Laura, Arclight & Anna could be the E4 in the 'ideal' ending and Blake, Bennet, Fern & Elias could be the E4 in the 'true' ending. This way the E4 will either be a team that fights against Lin or a team that fights for Lin.

 

This theory is pushed a little bit far IMO, but sounds pretty seducing. Blake could have his Ametrine snowy mountain field replacing Heather's mountain one, Bennett could fight on the same flower garden field as Laura, but I guess the starlight arena is a bit unadapted for Fern ? If this theory is confirmed and Arclight is actually part of the elite in the ideal, then I see Connal more than Fern, fighting on the same field in the true. Which would make :

-Ideal : Heather (Mountain Field), Laura (Flower Garden Field), Arclight (Electric Terrain, Factory Field ?), Anna (Starlight Arena)

-True : Blake (Snowy Mountain Field), Bennett (Flower Garden Field), Connal (same field as Arclight), Elias (Holy Field)

That means no starlight arena in the true path, as well as two different Drampa to fight in the same league, unless Connal removes his.

Also, that means Arclight would take off the Emerald from Elias in the Ideal, as well as Connal would steal the Amethyst from Anna in the True. Blake would take the Ruby back from Heather and Bennett would keep the Sapphire from Laura.

Finally, both Connal and Arclight are not full (Electric) type specialists, which is not a good point for an Elite 4 member in my opinion. Also Blake should remove his Gyarados and Starmie in that case.

Edited by RocketOSullivan
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On 11/20/2020 at 12:05 AM, RocketOSullivan said:

Agreed, I don't see a classic E4 fight either. Maybe a possibility to heal your team and access to a pc between the fights ?

Definitely possible. Healing the team between fights is sensible and I don't know why the main games don't have it.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 12:05 AM, RocketOSullivan said:

This theory is pushed a little bit far IMO, but sounds pretty seducing.

This was just an example off the top of my head. I didn't mean it would be exactly like that. Like you said, the four keys should play a role with each of the E4, I'm just not sure how that would work if the E4 changed.

 

I am also thinking about all the fields where we didn't have to fight any of the main characters.

To my knowledge, the following fields have never had any boss fights so far -

  • Flower garden
  • Starlight field
  • Inverse field
  • Rainbow field
  • Holy field
  • Swamp field
  • New world field

And these fields have only had battles with Pulse mons or lower-tier bosses -

  • Crystal cavern
  • Cave
  • Murkwater
  • Icy field
  • Mountain

Also interestingly, you can fight Connal on the Psychic terrain if he manages to set it up during either of his fights.

 

So if I had to guess how the E4 fights would go, I would be looking at these fields.

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Indeed, I can't see who could represent the Beyond better than Anna, certainly not Connal. In the same way, Arclight could not be related to the Faith as well as Elias. Even the Pain for Blake would make few sense.

 

Also, I thought Groudon could be found in the Tanzan Depths.

Edited by RocketOSullivan
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