Jump to content

Recommended Posts

On 6/20/2020 at 3:38 PM, Between Life and Death said:

 

This is a change of topic, but are we sure Anastasia is really Nastasia? After all:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

You'd think Nastasia would remember meeting Ren in the past, especially when she was guiding him through a scene that she had lived through. Also, Nastasia seems rather young for someone who was alive before Storm 9. Is it possible that Nastasia is the Deoxys instead? Maybe Anastasia dies when trying to save Maria from Indriad, and then her Deoxys uses its DNA powers to become a "clone" of her, and wants revenge.

 

I pretty much believe that Anastasia became Nastasia for the following reasons:

 

She took Ren as her personal assistant.

During the flight to Zone Zero she accidentally was going to call him Mr. Ren before quickly correcting herself.

Xen HQ is the remodeled Rejuvenation Co., who better to do so than the heir of the company.

There are, to my knowledge, no known records of Deoxys being able to transform into human beings, or creating illusions.

During Ren's mission in the past, when he asks her why she knows all that, she get's visibly nervous and tries to evade the topic or hangs up on him.

And she's the one of the important characters in the game, which has a natural purple hair color.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 6/20/2020 at 8:51 AM, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

And she's the only important character in the game, which has a natural purple hair color...I believe.

You're absolutely right. Aelita, Vivian and Taelia are just simple side characters without any meaning to the plot, whatsoever

Edited by Gastronely
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Gastronely said:

You're absolutely right. Aelita, Vivian and Taelia are just simple side characters without any meaning to the plot, whatsoever

You're definitely right, I knew I forgot someone.......even though that I thought Aelita's (and her prior incarnations) hair colors to be a sort of bluish purple...I guess I was mistaken, sry 😥

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

You're definitely right, I knew I forgot someone.......even though that I thought Aelita's (and her prior incarnations) hair colors to be a sort of bluish purple...I guess I was mistaken, sry 😥

Sorry if I was rude, or something : (

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Gastronely said:

Sorry if I was rude, or something : (

Don't be to harsh on yourself. 😁

This is what discussions are for, everyone has his/her own opinion, whether they prove to be correct or not on the long run, needs to be seen.

Despite that I used to view myself as somewhat of artist way back when I'm kinda bad with colors now......not exaggerating as far as creating a discussion about the differences of the colors Ruby, Scarlet, Strawberry and so on, in the end it's all red 😆

 

But enough of that, I don't wanna turn this thread into dicussing the different shades of colors xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Duskfang Shadowpaw said:

But enough of that, I don't wanna turn this thread into dicussing the different shades of colors xD

Rorrin B.: Am I a joke to you?

 

 _ ___ _ _ _ _ _

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced We have it ALLLLL wrong. Anathea is the Archetype. She has a keyhole on the back of her neck, for Arceus' cold sake! That's how she can talk in the Athenium. Although that also makes it reaaaally confusing as to how she can be in the soul stone.... but that keyhole makes me think.

 

Issue is, I do not appreciate at all the twist that this is all just some over-zealous corperation from a futuristic past's shenenigans. It's obvious what's going on: the King and Queen story, my favorite part of any pokemon game, is a lie. they were just members of the company who had differing ideas about the application of their nanotech. Some created nano-animal abominations (pokemon), and others became abominably powerful (Angie, Indriad and who knows how many others). Even the Interceptors that are literally fighting DESTINY are just the result of some advanced power conducting black lightning rods in the ground... built by a corperation that has really weird taste in architecture. It's like some kind of bizarre blend. Hopefully we get the explanation this stuff is part of some kind of alternate timeline stuff... maybe Erin is on to something when she says the past they visited with Vivian was not the past, but somehow the future... but the tech stuff remains... the Garufa were so cool when they were more ominously magic, rather than some kind of lifeforce draining nanite... whatever they are in reality.

 

But aaaaanyway... Anathea may just be an android, or she was the real mother of Adrest or something. I bring all this griping up about the High-tech, because it absolutely DESTROYS any cohesive (and simpler theories I had...)

 

Right now it seems like the Archetype kids are Maria split into 4, though it just as well be Isiah brain wiped both mother and daughter and left it so Melia as Maria didn't remember, and neither did poor Anathea. That would indicate, abstractly, that the golden being talking to Erin and Melia in the Athenium was actually Arceus. It's referred to as a mother, but we know only that the Prime Arceus was male. The pieces were probably two female and a male, just as how there are three sisters and one brother amongst the Four.

 

Right now, the more I think on it, it seems like the Archetype is no longer Indriad's goal. He got what he wanted and he did something later on after having it. My guess is hechose to ensure it, and Nymiera, could no longer endanger his plans, and so scattered the Archetype Triforce style. And hten went on to destroy everything else.

 

What's troubling me about this little theory is that none of the children according to Isiah's records had blonde hair, including Anathea. It's like that record was made in another timeline altogether. Perhaps the first one? Or maybe the Archetype was found by Indriad later, somehow, and he put it into Anathea and then had children with her, in the hopes perhaps it would seep into her children to provide powerful sacrifices...

 

You know what? Another, perhaps more humanizing thought about Indriad: he erased his own memories about his other three children. Maybe he feared what he was "destined to become". Or could become. We know Gardevoir remained with him until her end, and he seemed to love Anathea and Maria. Seems to me that perhaps he legitimately tried "this" time, in the game's main events, and in order to ensure this he hid some of his children, sealing them away, along with their power. Only Maria remained, perhaps due to being the favored child, or possibly because of other reasons (she was the strongest light-embraced and so COULDN'T be sealed, or the like?). Would make him out to be more human and would explain some seemingly senseless choices of his right about now.

 

My opinion as of this time is he's the pure Evil of the prophesy of darkness. He displays the other three sins of prejudice, greed and treachery (Can't remember all of the right now, of COURSE). He's purest evil. So perhaps he went to drastic, and earnest, measures to change at the last, like Nymiera thought. Until that fateful Tangrowth swing... T-though Aelita's memories indicate freya was responsible for that somehow, so... I dunno. Anybody got a reason why she was at the mansion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2020 at 9:47 AM, TheHellHamster said:

There was the time she hung up on him and also when she accidentally called him "Mr. Ren"

She could have hung up on him because she still would know who Anastasia was. But when did she call him Mr. Ren?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Between Life and Death said:

She could have hung up on him because she still would know who Anastasia was. But when did she call him Mr. Ren?

When they were flying towards Zone Zero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other thing: were there multiple Marias in the past? Like, I initially thought it was strange that Anathea said "the soul of Maria is nearby" in the dungeon under Hiyoshi City. We had seen Gardevoir trap Maria in the crystal under the Marble Mansion a few weeks earlier, and she was still there after the calamity when Kenneth went in. So yeah, that was weird.

 

But the Strange House made it weirder. I'd initially thought the prologue was just a vision Maria had while in the crystal. But it appears that somehow BOTH the prologue and the Marble Mansion scene happened in the past. And come to think of it, the Hiyoshi City dungeon looked like the area in the prologue where Maria was going to be sacrificed.

 

I highly doubt Vitus was raising two families at once. And in the prologue, he seemed to never have left the cult, and was merely hiding his involvement in it from Anathea. So is it possible that the calamity caused two alternate universes to merge? And they had already begun merging by the Hiyoshi City sequence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/24/2020 at 4:54 PM, Between Life and Death said:

But the Strange House made it weirder. I'd initially thought the prologue was just a vision Maria had while in the crystal. But it appears that somehow BOTH the prologue and the Marble Mansion scene happened in the past. And come to think of it, the Hiyoshi City dungeon looked like the area in the prologue where Maria was going to be sacrificed

My guess is that the prologue scene was an illusion created by indriad and that this scene had repeated it self more than once because in the prologue madame x says "how many times will you put her through this".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, iiiiitamar said:

My guess is that the prologue scene was an illusion created by indriad and that this scene had repeated it self more than once because in the prologue madame x says "how many times will you put her through this".

That's what I thought too. But you can literally find the house from the prologue in the desert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or it could be a seperate timeline since we know those exist and that Madame X can seemingly hop between them it would explain why she says how many times are you going to put her through this like this exact scenario had happened in multiple different timelines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Node15 said:

Or it could be a seperate timeline since we know those exist and that Madame X can seemingly hop between them it would explain why she says how many times are you going to put her through this like this exact scenario had happened in multiple different timelines.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. But it only works if the timelines merged at some point, and had already begun merging before the calamity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

Yeah, that's what I was saying. But it only works if the timelines merged at some point, and had already begun merging before the calamity.

I've been thinking this exact thing! It would suddenly explain the involvement of seemingly two Garufa. A technological one, and a truely magical one. Things are not as they seem. . .

 

If Maria is in the crystal... then maybe the 4 children are the result of extracting pieces of her personality, or something. I got no clue at this point. Because that is WEIRD.

 

Here's a thought that's been nagging me: exactly when did Chrysalis Mansion events take place for us while we were there? Could it have been post-calamity after all? We know it got turned into a hotel somehow... and Chrysalis makes me think of Yveltal. But it could have referred to Maria in her crystal prison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, where exactly in the desert can we find the prologue house? The mysterious house below Sashilla is the one Crescent was sitting at, was it not? At Valor Mountain when she saves us from death?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Feng Lei said:

Wait, where exactly in the desert can we find the prologue house? The mysterious house below Sashilla is the one Crescent was sitting at, was it not? At Valor Mountain when she saves us from death?

That is the house that appears in the prologue, but it could also be the house crescent seats next to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Feng Lei said:

Wait, where exactly in the desert can we find the prologue house? The mysterious house below Sashilla is the one Crescent was sitting at, was it not? At Valor Mountain when she saves us from death?

Yes, it was. But the layout of the inside is exactly like the layout of the house in the prologue. You can even find the portrait of Maria's family in GDC, hang it up where it originally was in the prologue, and in response the basement will open and you can see the room where Vitus sacrificed his wife. So yes, both the house in the prologue and the Marble Mansion exist simultaneously.

 

But that's not even the weirdest part. When you walk around the house, the player character themself starts having flashbacks to the prologue. Which clearly has something to do with them appearing outside of the house when you "die." So it appears that Marianette and the player have a weird connection.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

Yes, it was. But the layout of the inside is exactly like the layout of the house in the prologue. You can even find the portrait of Maria's family in GDC, hang it up where it originally was in the prologue, and in response the basement will open and you can see the room where Vitus sacrificed his wife. So yes, both the house in the prologue and the Marble Mansion exist simultaneously.

 

But that's not even the weirdest part. When you walk around the house, the player character themself starts having flashbacks to the prologue. Which clearly has something to do with them appearing outside of the house when you "die." So it appears that Marianette and the player have a weird connection.

Maybe the mc and Maria are the same person/ are related.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, iiiiitamar said:

Maybe the mc and Maria are the same person/ are related.

Actually, you know what I've realized? There is NO evidence that Maria and Melia are the same person. The game kind of just lets you assume that. But the only thing suggesting that is that when Angie tries to sacrifice Melia, Melia says she's "experienced this before." But that's flimsy evidence at best; presumably many people have been sacrificed in the past.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

Yes, it was. But the layout of the inside is exactly like the layout of the house in the prologue. You can even find the portrait of Maria's family in GDC, hang it up where it originally was in the prologue, and in response the basement will open and you can see the room where Vitus sacrificed his wife. So yes, both the house in the prologue and the Marble Mansion exist simultaneously.

 

But that's not even the weirdest part. When you walk around the house, the player character themself starts having flashbacks to the prologue. Which clearly has something to do with them appearing outside of the house when you "die." So it appears that Marianette and the player have a weird connection.

OMG I DID NOT KNOW YOU COULD DO THAT WITH THE PORTRAIT!

 

And yes, it is possible Melia and Maria are indeed separate people.

 

Now, when it comes to the Interceptor, that's where things can get all kinds of confusing. I am going to assume at the moment that whatever happened in that house, it was the most critical moment, or the point whereby the Interceptor is grafted into events, and is shown the prologue due to its dire significance as the very incident that triggers the disasters to come.

 

Now, another thought on all this happening more than once: we know Anathea dies twice, basically. What if she and Kanon are the same kind of entity? There was an original Anathea, presumably the one Tangrowthed. But it is possible that the one we see in the prologue is in fact a special Kanon-style maid. We've seen clearly he is basically a hormunculus, and Anathea-Prologue version might indeed be such a creature.

 

Then there's the Maria bit. It could be we witness her final moments in the prologue, and the result is the Archetype splitting again into 4. That would make sense, so far as I know, if not for the fact that Isiah had data on the Theolias indicating they all existed prior to the siblings vanishing and their hair turning gold. But what if that's misdirection? Perhaps Freya did it? We know at least Risa Raider was lurking nearby at the time... possibly stalking us JUST to prevent us from piecing too much together. Though she did try and hint as something critical with that Garufa nuke (which was always empty. Weirdest moment in that chapter).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Feng Lei said:

OMG I DID NOT KNOW YOU COULD DO THAT WITH THE PORTRAIT!

 

And yes, it is possible Melia and Maria are indeed separate people.

 

Now, when it comes to the Interceptor, that's where things can get all kinds of confusing. I am going to assume at the moment that whatever happened in that house, it was the most critical moment, or the point whereby the Interceptor is grafted into events, and is shown the prologue due to its dire significance as the very incident that triggers the disasters to come.

 

Now, another thought on all this happening more than once: we know Anathea dies twice, basically. What if she and Kanon are the same kind of entity? There was an original Anathea, presumably the one Tangrowthed. But it is possible that the one we see in the prologue is in fact a special Kanon-style maid. We've seen clearly he is basically a hormunculus, and Anathea-Prologue version might indeed be such a creature.

 

Then there's the Maria bit. It could be we witness her final moments in the prologue, and the result is the Archetype splitting into 4. That would make sense, so far as I know, if not for the fact that Isiah had data on the Theolias indicating they all existed prior to the siblings vanishing and their hair turning gold. But what if that's misdirection? Perhaps Freya did it? We know at least Risa Raider was lurking nearby at the time... possibly stalking us JUST to prevent us from piecing too much together. Though she did try and hint as something critical with that Garufa nuke (which was always empty. Weirdest moment in that chapter).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Between Life and Death said:

Actually, you know what I've realized? There is NO evidence that Maria and Melia are the same person. The game kind of just lets you assume that. But the only thing suggesting that is that when Angie tries to sacrifice Melia, Melia says she's "experienced this before." But that's flimsy evidence at best; presumably many people have been sacrificed in the past.

Something else that hints that they are not the same person is that when you enter the lab for the first time you run into melia and unlike marrianette she doesn't recognize you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iiiiitamar said:

Something else that hints that they are not the same person is that when you enter the lab for the first time you run into melia and unlike marrianette she doesn't recognize you.

 

Oh, I don't think anybody thought that Melia would have any memories as Maria, just that she was a reincarnation or something. But really, their only similarities are that they're both blonde and that they both have superpowers. The blondeness, if it isn't just coincidence, could be because they were both near the archetype at some point. And they don't even necessarily have the same kind of superpowers; we never saw Maria use any kind of light to make things grow.

 

Is it possible that Maria was a past interceptor instead? The "remember who you are" thing Madame X said would still make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Feng Lei said:

Now, when it comes to the Interceptor, that's where things can get all kinds of confusing. I am going to assume at the moment that whatever happened in that house, it was the most critical moment, or the point whereby the Interceptor is grafted into events, and is shown the prologue due to its dire significance as the very incident that triggers the disasters to come.

Good thought.

2 hours ago, Feng Lei said:

Now, another thought on all this happening more than once: we know Anathea dies twice, basically. What if she and Kanon are the same kind of entity? There was an original Anathea, presumably the one Tangrowthed. But it is possible that the one we see in the prologue is in fact a special Kanon-style maid. We've seen clearly he is basically a hormunculus, and Anathea-Prologue version might indeed be such a creature.

 

That can't be true, since she's inside the soul stone now. (Speaking of: if Maria were Melia, Anathea would definitely have popped out when you came into contact).

2 hours ago, Feng Lei said:

Then there's the Maria bit. It could be we witness her final moments in the prologue, and the result is the Archetype splitting again into 4. That would make sense, so far as I know, if not for the fact that Isiah had data on the Theolias indicating they all existed prior to the siblings vanishing and their hair turning gold. But what if that's misdirection? Perhaps Freya did it? We know at least Risa Raider was lurking nearby at the time... possibly stalking us JUST to prevent us from piecing too much together. Though she did try and hint as something critical with that Garufa nuke (which was always empty. Weirdest moment in that chapter).

I kind of doubt Freya would be THAT sophisticated. Thanks for bringing up that Garufa Nuke though, I'd forgotten about it. Weird that Freya would want us to know about it.

 

Are we all pretty certain that Risa is Freya? Because if so, Aelita and Texen have a common enemy. They could join forces against her, and Texen would get his redemption arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

No I don't think risa is freya. freya could  be a 2nd interceptor

Edited by Display name

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...