Has the AI gotten worse in E14?

[dondon151 9]

I know I complained about this in E12, but in E14 it feels like the AI is just using moves at random, even for high-level opponents. I've seen Aya and Sirius target Diggersby on the turn it was underground, I've had them use not-very-effective attacks when they had clearly better alternatives, and in some circumstances they switch out a Pokemon with about a 50/50 chance. It's making difficult the task of planning out consistent battle strategies.

So I do recall that there's something with Pokemon Essentials that guarantees a small chance of any opponent picking a move at random, but this appears to be happening with increased frequency. Or it could just be confirmation bias.

[Amethyst 2466]

The short answer is yes.

AI was redone by Essentials itself between E13 and E14. We are not pleased with the new base AI. It was quite a task getting opposing trainers to do anything for a while. I mean literally anything.

It'll be a WIP.

[dondon151 9]

Well, that blows. You'd think that whoever is developing Essentials would improve the AI rather than make it worse... Though I do suppose that there are more ways to make an AI worse than to make it better.

It's a real shame; sometimes I send in a low level Pokemon as item use fodder and then the Pokemon doesn't get OHKO'd like it's supposed to ~_~

[Chris211 0]

in my opinion Ai at episode 13 were very good. they 80% targated me with super effective moves and used status moves better. At ep14 ehm i am disapointed a little

[bluebomberdude 0]

Let's hope that Dan will try to mess with the to AI fix/improve it for 15.

[Hypa 1]

well yes the ai has recently been alot worse

[Mortally Divine 5]

I'm actually really upset, the AI has been kicking my arse in my mono steel type run, and everyone is saying its worse D:

Sometimes, yeah, they do some pretty stupid things, like use baton pass as the last pokemon alive, or switch a pokemon out just to switch it back, but overall the AI is still tougher than a normal pokemon game

"Oh, that move did 1 damage? lets spam that." ~Elite four of every other pokemon game

[dondon151 9]

That's actually not true; Pokemon game AI is fairly good at using super-effective moves on targets. This is especially true for trainers with high AI level settings.

[Damage 13]

I've dealt with suicidal Diglets under the grand staircase. Literally 4 in a row used magnitude. Made it to Solaris with one pokemon.

[Etesian 8]

Though it is an improvement that random trainers now can switch Pokemon in battle. It's a step in a good direction (and 2 steps back regarding other stuff, but hey)

[Mortally Divine 5]

That's actually not true; Pokemon game AI is fairly good at using super-effective moves on targets. This is especially true for trainers with high AI level settings.

Then again, thats based off of my experience of using Mewtwo alone ~Level 90 to sweep the elite 4 + champion for experience (after EV training). Usually they don't even get a move in before being 1 shot, but if they do it does minimal damage. Other than that they're halfway decent, but they still don't compare to the AI of Reborn IMHO

[Helios2 0]

Then again, thats based off of my experience of using Mewtwo alone ~Level 90 to sweep the elite 4 + champion for experience (after EV training). Usually they don't even get a move in before being 1 shot, but if they do it does minimal damage. Other than that they're halfway decent, but they still don't compare to the AI of Reborn IMHO

Well, that hasnt really something to do with the AI, it is more a problem of the pokemon they use, try it to sweep them when they have all 6 pokemon on lvl 95-100.^^

[dondon151 9]

Then again, thats based off of my experience of using Mewtwo alone ~Level 90 to sweep the elite 4 + champion for experience (after EV training). Usually they don't even get a move in before being 1 shot, but if they do it does minimal damage. Other than that they're halfway decent, but they still don't compare to the AI of Reborn IMHO

Right, so what you mean by this is, your experience is irrelevant. You would literally say the same thing about Reborn if you had a L90 Mewtwo without badge restrictions.

[Mortally Divine 5]

Right, so what you mean by this is, your experience is irrelevant. You would literally say the same thing about Reborn if you had a L90 Mewtwo without badge restrictions.

I still have experience fighting the elite four and pokemon league in other games,sorry for not clarifying that, the exaggeration I made in my first statement was just to put the pokemon reborn AI over the AI of the actual games. The actual games are made for children, and are very pushover. Even so, reborn would still be a challenge with a level 90 mewtwo, considering the levels we're at right now are in the 70s. My experience is not irrelevant, and I do not appreciate the disrespect, although I can see where a misunderstanding was made. However, to get mewtwo, you would have to beat the pokemon league once without him, and even then it was relatively easy. All you really have to know is type matchups, which is simple. Reborn requires a bit more than that.

Well, that hasnt really something to do with the AI, it is more a problem of the pokemon they use, try it to sweep them when they have all 6 pokemon on lvl 95-100.^^

Done. Mewtwo is pretty broken. Pokemon fire red, the level 100 tower thingy stood no chance against a level 92 mewtwo with Psychic, not even psystrike (which wasn't available then).

Either way, the pokemon league in regular games is relatively easy to sweep, because, as I said, the game is made with child level difficulty IMO.

There have been many times where regular game AI would use moves that aren't very effective repeatedly, when the pokemon had a super effective move in its moveset. Or use moves that are completely ineffective, such as the electric gym leader repeatedly trying to thundershock a dugtrio/diglett.

Same thing goes for reborn, although it doesn't happen as often.

[dondon151 9]

I still have experience fighting the elite four and pokemon league in other games,sorry for not clarifying that, the exaggeration I made in my first statement was just to put the pokemon reborn AI over the AI of the actual games. The actual games are made for children, and are very pushover. Even so, reborn would still be a challenge with a level 90 mewtwo, considering the levels we're at right now are in the 70s. My experience is not irrelevant, and I do not appreciate the disrespect, although I can see where a misunderstanding was made. However, to get mewtwo, you would have to beat the pokemon league once without him, and even then it was relatively easy. All you really have to know is type matchups, which is simple. Reborn requires a bit more than that.

Either way, the pokemon league in regular games is relatively easy to sweep, because, as I said, the game is made with child level difficulty IMO.

There have been many times where regular game AI would use moves that aren't very effective repeatedly, when the pokemon had a super effective move in its moveset. Or use moves that are completely ineffective, such as the electric gym leader repeatedly trying to thundershock a dugtrio/diglett.

The topic at hand was the quality of AI, not the quality of the opponent Pokemon. You went on a non sequitur about how your L90 Mewtwo was the best Pokemon ever. The fact is that opponent AI in the actual Pokemon games is pretty good for high level trainers - gym leaders, E4, ace trainers. Gen 1 AI is a bit of an exception because it's incredibly stupid, but I have a good amount of experience with ROMhacking and I'd assert that my opinion on this issue is more correct.

@bold: One can probably beat E14 with a Blaziken and a Diggersby and some HM slaves as death fodder. That's maybe one step up from the Pokemon games, but Pokemon is Pokemon.

[Mortally Divine 5]

The topic at hand was the quality of AI, not the quality of the opponent Pokemon. You went on a non sequitur about how your L90 Mewtwo was the best Pokemon ever. The fact is that opponent AI in the actual Pokemon games is pretty good for high level trainers - gym leaders, E4, ace trainers. Gen 1 AI is a bit of an exception because it's incredibly stupid, but I have a good amount of experience with ROMhacking and I'd assert that my opinion on this issue is more correct.

@bold: One can probably beat E14 with a Blaziken and a Diggersby and some HM slaves as death fodder. That's maybe one step up from the Pokemon games, but Pokemon is Pokemon.

Either way, in the main games the "high level" AI still uses non-optimal moves. Sorry for getting off topic with mewtwo, but the fact still remains. If you believe your opinion is better because of your ROMhacking, go for it, I can't change your thoughts

EDIT: after looking up how the new pokemon AI works, I've found out something interesting. The AI first checks if it should use an item on its pokemon. How low it is on health is the main factor, does it have status problems, etc. What this leads to a lot of times, is your pokemon shooting theirs down to red/yellow in one hit, which then makes the AI say "I should use an item", so the item is used, and your pokemon shoots them right back down, effectively wasting their item.

Second, it checks if it should switch the pokemon out, which is determined on how good your pokemons moves are against theirs. Then it might make a switch, or it might move on.

Then, it gives each of its moves a "score" based on how good they are. What happens here is the kicker; a lot of times, yes, it will pick the "best" supper effective move, because it gets a better score. More often than not though, it seems to value lowering your stats over dealing damage, especially in lower level AI. What that causes is a lot of cases where the AI could've fainted your pokemon, but chose to use a move like screech or iron defense over something that would've been fatal.

Make what you want of that, IMHO it seems rugged, but I couldn't think of a better way to do it, other than force the AI to cheat and check if it has any moves that will "kill" your pokemon that turn, or check speed to see who hits first, and if they hit first and can kill you, do it, then value your moves + their stats + your stats to see if you can kill them, and if you cant, do some damage / lower stats. In essence, the AI is pretty much as good as its going to get without "cheating"., but in my opinion its still bad, because of the fact that it's easy to beat.

[Azeria 390]

Either way, in the main games the "high level" AI still uses non-optimal moves. Sorry for getting off topic with mewtwo, but the fact still remains. If you believe your opinion is better because of your ROMhacking, go for it, I can't change your thoughts

EDIT: after looking up how the new pokemon AI works, I've found out something interesting. The AI first checks if it should use an item on its pokemon. How low it is on health is the main factor, does it have status problems, etc. What this leads to a lot of times, is your pokemon shooting theirs down to red/yellow in one hit, which then makes the AI say "I should use an item", so the item is used, and your pokemon shoots them right back down, effectively wasting their item.

Second, it checks if it should switch the pokemon out, which is determined on how good your pokemons moves are against theirs. Then it might make a switch, or it might move on.

Then, it gives each of its moves a "score" based on how good they are. What happens here is the kicker; a lot of times, yes, it will pick the "best" supper effective move, because it gets a better score. More often than not though, it seems to value lowering your stats over dealing damage, especially in lower level AI. What that causes is a lot of cases where the AI could've fainted your pokemon, but chose to use a move like screech or iron defense over something that would've been fatal.

Make what you want of that, IMHO it seems rugged, but I couldn't think of a better way to do it, other than force the AI to cheat and check if it has any moves that will "kill" your pokemon that turn, or check speed to see who hits first, and if they hit first and can kill you, do it, then value your moves + their stats + your stats to see if you can kill them, and if you cant, do some damage / lower stats. In essence, the AI is pretty much as good as its going to get without "cheating"., but in my opinion its still bad, because of the fact that it's easy to beat.

Huh,that's something i didnt know.

[dondon151 9]

Make what you want of that, IMHO it seems rugged, but I couldn't think of a better way to do it, other than force the AI to cheat and check if it has any moves that will "kill" your pokemon that turn, or check speed to see who hits first, and if they hit first and can kill you, do it, then value your moves + their stats + your stats to see if you can kill them, and if you cant, do some damage / lower stats. In essence, the AI is pretty much as good as its going to get without "cheating"., but in my opinion its still bad, because of the fact that it's easy to beat.

Yes, this is pretty much what Essentials had before, and it's better than what Essentials has currently.

[alaneapen 1]

If the AI is this bad, then possibly setting up with one Pokémon and passing the boosts will be that much easier.

[Mortally Divine 5]

Currently in the gen 6 games, apparently they actually made the high level AI cheat, by calculating how much damage each move would do, and then predict stats by calculating your damage to them, how long the fight would last etc and then pick the best off of that, which is something a normal player can't do. (calculate damage before moves are used). The only thing is, the gym leaders pokemon are weak compared to yours, because they (apparently) have no EVs, which of course makes their stats lower, and early game you outnumber them in pokemon. The leaders also have a pretty limited moveset. SO, I guess it is in large part due to the quality of the pokemon from regular games to reborn.

AI still is easy to beat

Except when Ame makes every hidden power type any opponent has fire, while I'm doing my mono steel run. That's annoying >.>

[Chris211 0]

For the next episode or at least for the last badges/E4 i would like to see the best AI, good decisions, good movesets. And i hope E4 has also Ev'd pokemon.Since it would be the last chapter of the game(maybe), i want it to be very difficult/challenging..

I mean maybe it would be better for Ame and the guys to focus on AI and then on other things. but that is just my opinion..

[dondon151 9]

I'm under the impression that Ame doesn't have much, if any, control over the quality of the AI.

I also don't think that having the "best" AI is a priority considering that "best" is hard to define. I'd just prefer that the AI be consistent.

[Sonikku 37]

For the next episode or at least for the last badges/E4 i would like to see the best AI, good decisions, good movesets. And i hope E4 has also Ev'd pokemon.Since it would be the last chapter of the game(maybe), i want it to be very difficult/challenging..

I mean maybe it would be better for Ame and the guys to focus on AI and then on other things. but that is just my opinion..

:] The Gym leaders pokemon apparently have perfect IVs, along with the aces of most important trainers. I don't know if they are EVd but I would assume they are.

I doubt Ame would give perfect ivs and leave their evs empty. The AI can't really be "improved" from what I have heard. Don't worry Bro, the game has already put us through Hell and worse. The story is the greatest strong point of Reborn in my opinion. I would rather keep the astonishing storyline than improved AI. Keep in mind the game isn't only about Pokemon Battles. It is difficult even in the overworld with puzzles, etc. The Story has never failed to impress me, and I know it never will.

[Chris211 0]

Yep i also read somewhere that she cant do many things with Ai. but the mister here gave me an idea. maybe good maybe bad.

we can make a thread where we give story/plot ideas to Ame..but that way everyone would know about it and it wouldnt be a surprise.

[Mortally Divine 5]

Ame already has it all plotted out, no need to give her other ideas