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Arkadius

Pokemon Reborn E18 Speedrun in 6 hours, 26 minutes and 46 seconds!

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Hey, I saw your posts coming in the past couple days and just wanted to say that it's really cool to see someone so invested in the run and to come up with a full essay of ideas, improvements and feedback. Unfortunately I am really busy with work atm so I don't have the time to try a bunch of your ideas out and do other testing. I will hopefully have more time soon. For now things that stand out are:

- Natu with teleport, I considered teleport at some point but only thought of the Abra in 7th street which I then concluded was not worth it. I never considered Natu! This could be really big for sure. The only thing I think about it the pokemon party. If you have natu then you probably don't have Mightyena. Mightyena is used for strength and rock smash, but I suppose these moves can always be taught to either Nidoqueen or Sharpedo over Sludge Wave / Surf / Waterfall / Dive. Definitely see a lot of use for natu. 

- Wide lens, I was looking for ways to improve Serra and came across the wide lens at some point. Since it's not available before Serra I ditched the idea and never considered that it could be extremely usefull for HJK... Fuck Brick Break. Defenitely 100% usefull as well. Also considering the teleport strats, you would pass through the nature observatory.

- Misty Terrain. Bobelle always said Misty Terrain would be OP, even back when we were literally doing runs to Shelly and you weren't even close to having it. I can defitely see a lot of use for this in combination with Prankster and the Amplified Rock. I don't think the sidequest with the daycare people will be worth it, however it could be done when going to the Coral Ward to meet Cain/Amaria and then going immediatly to the Factory afterwards. Getting the train candy on the Serra split is def 100% faster, I forgot about it in the last run I did. 

- Life Orb. Can def see this item becoming very usefull to make certain damage ranges perfect. 

Things to always consider though: The Reborn AI varies based on a lot of factors, including the stats of your Pokemon. Radomus is a perfect example, it is quite a weird fight. I've seen at least 6 variations to this fight, some of which I was unable to win at all. 

Awesome contributions, thanks a lot and cheers!

 

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heart scale locations

 

Heart Scale (1st container right-above the Name Rater house at 2nd Street) - lower peridot ward
Heart Scale (at the end of the alley) - north peridot alley
Heart Scale (bush at the upper left of the park at the Main Street) - obsidia ward
Heart Scale (from the Move Relearner after giving her Keys back) - onyx ward
Heart Scale (space 7 spots left and 2 spots down the 5th rock) - beryl bridge
Heart Scale (upper left rock left the down-ladder, at the small area coming from B3F Right Area) - grand stairway b2f
Heart Scale (grass at the top end of the gym, after Adrienn battle) - coral gym ***
Heart Scale (space left the bush right from the 3rd Hiker) - route 1
Heart Scale (pink flowers left the upper left waterfall pool) - fiore gym ***
Heart Scale (toxic bush right from the 4th set of tubes) -  byxbysion wasteland 
Heart Scale (lower left yellow-blue flowers in the 6th flower ring) - tanzan cove
Heart Scale (rock lower right the train at the bottom hidden path) - chrysolia forest
Heart Scale (space 6 spots down the before last train scrap middle lower left the area) - 1r253 scrapyard ***
Heart Scale (space left the mountain wall between the 2 big trees at the lower right corner of the area up the 1st stairs) - route 4 ***
Heart Scale (grass patch up the bonfire after the 1st stairs on the right path) - route 4 **** (take the right path going up route 4, avoid line of sight)
Heart Scale (space 4 spots right and 7 spots up from the rock up the entrance) - route 4 area 1 *** (needs rock climb, optional)

 

rare candy locations

 

Rare Candy (at the top left) - mosswater factory
Rare Candy (from the locked up kid at the top right) - Dr.Connal's Orphanage and Psychiatric Treatment Center ***
Rare Candy (sack upper left the area inside the lower small room) - 7th street
Rare Candy (space at the path end, directions from the entrance) - vanhanen labyrinth
Rare Candy (inside the small room) - citae astrae
Rare Candy (lower right Mt Moon area) - glitch city
Rare Candy (end of the room) - tanzan meteor base
Rare Candy (bus upper left the train at the bottom hidden path) - chrysolia forest
Rare Candy (2nd rock rubble left Sapphire Cave entrance) - route 3
Rare Candy (rock top of the upper left elevated area) - tourmaline desert *** (optional)
Rare Candy (at the bedroom, after the battle with Titania) - once upon a somewhere

 

teleport

 

-after beating cain, getting nidorina, catch natu, teleport to grand hall and go to orphanage        a lot faster
-after rescuing heather from the orphanage, teleport to grand hall to train sharpedo for crunch        not much faster
-after beating shade, teleport to grand hall and go to coral to meet up with amaria            somewhat faster
-after finishing blacksteam factory, teleport to grand hall and go to apophyll                not much faster
-after beating cal, teleport to apophyll and fight victoria+kiki                    not much faster
-after rescuing cain at azurine island, teleport to apophyll                        somewhat faster
-after beating aya, enter and leave OTS
-after finishing yureyu and underground railnet, teleport to onyx ward for move tutor            a lot faster
-enter and leave belrose manse and go fight serra
-after getting ana's medicine, teleport to belrose manse                        somewhat faster
-after escape roping from tanzan mountain when you finish meteor base, teleport to belrose manse    not much faster
-after beating radomus, train ampharos at grand hall for thunder+dragon pulse
-after beating luna, leave the cave and teleport to grand hall and take the route 2 tauros to agate    somewhat faster
-after beating blake, teleport to fiore mansion and go to the circus to fight terra            a lot faster
-after beating ciel, swap natu for pidove for fly(natu can't learn fly)

 

disclaimer: currently can't teleport to belrose manse or the circus, but ame said will be fixed in e19

 

i agree with you on the daycare couple, it might not be worth doing since it takes a lot longer to set up so buying an extra rare candy is ideal, but does mean it will dip in your finances midgame so will have to compromise on buying berry ice creams which is ok since we get moo moo milks very soon and lemonade will still be useful. i mapped out all the instances where you would have to teleport throughout the run and all the rare candies and heart scales to get, the ones that have a *** next to them are the ones you don't get in the run but i think you should get all of them since optional rare candies are a huge save on your finances since that makes the bulk of our purchasing power and these are all the current feasible heart scale pick ups in the game (15 after amaria). forgoing to teach aqua jet to sharpedo at the move relearner is def worth getting the nature change on ampharos and nidoqueen since aqua jet is only used for like 2 magma grunts in 7th street. it also means sharpedo can use rock smash or strength in lieu of that, until you get water hms(rock smash is only needed for train puzzle and strength is only needed for underground railnet). 3 for blaziken, 3 for sharpedo, another 3 for blaziken to reteach moves, 3 for ampharos, 3 for nidoqueen. ideally we can change nature for nidoqueen and ampharos after we beat amaria and get the 15th heart scale if need be, but depends on e19 and if that will be necessary. i have played through and mapped out all the current battles(i did the calcs and looked at their pbs files), but unfortunately i could not test out radomus extensively since he sends out different pokemon based on what stats your pokemon are(which i am still unsure what determines what). i can confidently say that misty terrain is 100% better over fake out on meowstic and getting it before serra is definitely worth the effort since it will be useful throughout the rest of the game(helps in at least 7 battles) and fake out won't. whenever you have time, hit me up i would love to see if we can optimize it any further 🙂 . also i editted a lot of my posts prior since after testing and planning during later splits, it has influenced some of my earlier ones and make me change certain things (like new arceus strategy) so sorry for the inconsistencies.

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small little update, currently rerouting the early game with blaze>speed boost blaziken for two reasons. one is that ability on torchic is not guaranteed, and the second reason is that i actually think it might be better than speed boost. combusken and blaziken already come with flame charge to compensate for lack of speed and that alone should make up for certain battles where it would need to set up and sweep(corey, cal, shelly, etc.). blaze is also a useful ability in its own right and can offer a much needed damage multiplier in certain situations and can make a lot of ranges much more favorable, which makes it situationally more useful than speed boost at least early game since we have flame charge. this will obviously go back to speed boost after we unlock the move relearner since we teach fire punch, flare blitz, and high jumk kick in lieu of its previous moves. and also since this is a speedrun, having to watch speed boost text go by every turn can be very tedious, but that's just me being petty, so we'll see how that goes.

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Very nice!

 

The current heart scale route has heart scales when at the move tutor: (using your list)

1. Heart Scale (1st container right-above the Name Rater house at 2nd Street) - lower peridot ward
2. Heart Scale (at the end of the alley) - north peridot alley
3. Heart Scale (bush at the upper left of the park at the Main Street) - obsidia ward
4. Heart Scale (upper left rock left the down-ladder, at the small area coming from B3F Right Area) - grand stairway b2f

5. Heart Scale (space 7 spots left and 2 spots down the 5th rock) - beryl bridge

6. Heart Scale (toxic bush right from the 4th set of tubes) -  byxbysion wasteland 

7. Heart Scale (from the Move Relearner after giving her Keys back) - onyx ward

This allows for the 4 moves being taught at the move tutor: 

- Fire Punch

- Flare Blitz

- HJK

- Aqua Jet

 

I agree, Aqua Jet is probably not necessary. Things like this are usually because of prior routing when the next sections weren't routed yet so it's always difficult to imagine what you'd need. Same goes for a lot of the item pickups too. 

Not teaching Aqua Jet is fine. It frees up a heart scale slot so to speak. 

You could teach Dragon Pulse earlier. I don't think this adds much though.

Zap Cannon is also possible (lol). 

Something that could be interesting is Counter on Nidoqueen. 

 

Anyway, assuming we save it: you then have 4 left, which is enough for 1 nature change when in 7th street on the Luna Split. 

In the time between, we pick up more heart scales:

1. (5 total) Heart Scale (lower left yellow-blue flowers in the 6th flower ring) - tanzan cove

2. (6 total) Heart Scale (rock lower right the train at the bottom hidden path) - chrysolia forest (during Serra split-(I forgot about the lost train heart scale in my latest run)

3. (7 total) Heart Scale (space left the bush right from the 3rd Hiker) - route 1

 

This allows for 2 specific nature changes. You then have 1 heart scale. left. 

 

After this, I didn't look into more heart scales much. There are indeed these two, I included them in an earlier route I think but there was no good option for a third I believe back then. 

i. (2 total) Heart Scale (space left the mountain wall between the 2 big trees at the lower right corner of the area up the 1st stairs) - route 4 ***  

ii. (3 total) Heart Scale (grass patch up the bonfire after the 1st stairs on the right path) - route 4 **** (take the right path going up route 4, avoid line of sight)

 

This leaves 4 more:

 

iii. (4 total) Heart Scale (grass at the top end of the gym, after Adrienn battle) - coral gym ***

image.png.56b7c5f04a2ba2c1d27f3a4f282eaf9d.png(should be here)
iv. (5 total) Heart Scale (pink flowers left the upper left waterfall pool) - fiore gym ***

image.png.c6cb95332e4f97bb670637f9af142729.png
v. (6 total) Heart Scale (space 6 spots down the before last train scrap middle lower left the area) - 1r253 scrapyard ***

(do you have screenshots of this one btw? - always good for reference) 
 

vi. Heart Scale (space 4 spots right and 7 spots up from the rock up the entrance) - route 4 area 1 *** (needs rock climb, optional)

image.png.308f6542240e486346e91d6ea97fdaf5.png

 

The last heart scale should not be needed. 

 

With these additional heart scales you could do an additional two nature changes. This could be useful for sure. They're easy and fast to pick up. Traveling to 7th street however is kinda slow, but not that bad. 

 

There's also another heart scale at the Glass Work Station (iirc):

image.png.041e132388fc69dee7521e7890cfe168.png

 

____________________________________________

 

I'm not sure how Blaze Torchic/Combusken works out. I've noticed in many fights speed boost is just needed. It's difficult for me to estimate how this would work out, also considering you need to be at 1/3 or lower of your HP. I don't usually like being at this low HP. There are always things to consider like priority moves, random switches etc. 

 

_____________________________________________


 

 

 

 

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Just a new post for clarity's sake:

 

The rare candy list is very insightful. The reason I didn't pick up the one in the Dr Connal's personal torture (or fetish) establishment is that I actually didn't know about it. 

 

- Rare Candy (rock top of the upper left elevated area) - tourmaline desert *** (optional)

Do you have an image for this one? 

 

- Rare Candy (at the bedroom, after the battle with Titania) - once upon a somewhere

I knew about this one, but it takes some time to go back there instead of simply jumping down the holes to exit the gym. I believe there is another rare candy here, but I'm not sure. Maybe we're talking about the same one. E: we're talking about the same one:

image.png.7df774cd76d7950cc7e41327ba54f09c.png

 

It just takes a bunch of time to exit the gym now. You can't escape rope or teleport unfortunately. 

 

There is another Candy in Malchous Forest after the restoration of Reborn we could consider:

image.png.7e18ec3036fa030d02a6c5edd71c2a77.png

 

But it's quite slow to pick up as you have to go through the forest first, jump some ledges and then exit again. You could do this on the way to Victoria when assembling the team for the Devon Mission. Alternatively, if there are any Adrienn-helpers here, it could be a way to combine it. 
__________________________________________

 

Speaking about Dr. Connal. Something maybe worth looking into is the Story split that determines who gets kidnapped and who you fight early. Currently we fight Sirius early. This is mostly because Sirius' team at the Belrose Mansion was incredibly hard to deal with when doing the primative routing/testing. Dr. Connal's team is relatively easy, whether you fight him first at the treatment center or later at the Belrose Mansion. Sirius' team at the treatment center is annoying for sure, but it's manageable. 

 

The different outcomes are:

1. Fight Dr. Connal in Yureyu Building & go up in Belrose Mansion -> Laura Kidnapped

2. Fight Dr. Connal in Yureyu Building & stay downstaris  in Belrose Mansion -> Noel/Anna kidnapped

 

3. Fight Sirius in Yureyu Building & stop Sirius  in Belrose Mansion -> Shelly/Charlotte kidnapped

4. Fight Sirius in Yureyu Building & stop Dr. Connal in Belrose Mansion -> Saphira kidnapped

 

Currently, we go for option 4. This results in Saphira getting kidnapped and you going with Laura to rescue her. This turns out not to be needed though, as Saphira breaks free on her own, taking down the two meteor guards guarding her cell. In the other scenario's this is a forced double battle. The EXP isn't really needed. Money isn't an issue, so this fight seems redundant. 

 

Considering the changes made since originally routing this, maybe an alternative scenario would be faster. It's just very difficult to estimate this. 

______________________________________

 

On more or less the same subject, the story split in which you either win or lose against Solaris on Mt. Pyrous is another thing that can be looked into. Maybe Florinia would be a better partner later in the Fiore Mansion Gauntlet. I don't really think so though. Also considering the time it would take for Garchomp to KO your entire team, it seems like this would be slower overall. 

_______________________________________

 

 

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Teleport

 

A big thing is that teleport strats would save a lot of repels and thus money. This could be beneficial to the rare candy situation. 

Teleporting doesn't take very long: menu + small animation.

 

-after beating cain, getting nidorina, catch natu, teleport to grand hall and go to orphanage  a lot faster

 

Like the idea of first beating Cain and then going after Nidorina and Natu. 

 

The teleport location would be set to the Grand Hall as you fought Fern there and leveled Ampharos and Meowstic. Catching Natu after Nidorina is perfect. You would have to deposit Mightyena as well after Shelly though. (blaziken, meowstic, ampharos, carvannah and nidorina who you pick up and then natu that you catch). This also means teaching Rock Smash to Blaziken or Flaaffy. I suppose Flaaffy can learn it here? You only need it for the rock before the Beryl Cave. After that it is again needed in Pyrous Mountain and in the Wasteland if you do the tunnel-detour to get the focus sash, but we can skip that. You do however need it to get back to Reborn City because there's a rock smash rock blocking the way back (unless I miss something). I suppose you could simply heal at the Coral Ward center after the Cain fight and then go through the wasteland, fight Fern (Blaziken solo), heal and fight Aya immediatly after and then teleport back. BUT you would be missing the heart scale pickup. EDIT: does not work, the teleport location is set to the wasteland because you enter there in order to fight Fern/Aya Doesn't matter if you use the healing machines or not. 

 

Anyway, Blaziken's moveset at the time of teaching Rock Smash is:

- flame charge - blake kick - bulk up - double kick. 

No tm moves here and basically all are needed. 

 

Ampharos' moveset here is:

- Power Gem - Electro Ball - Thunderwave - Thunderpunch

You suggested teaching Cotton Spore instead of Thunderwave, which is a decent idea but does Ampharos outspeed or even survive Dittoarceus to be able to pull cotton spore off?

And is Sharpedo guaranteed to outspeed at varying  IV's? (you would want 20+ in any case but you do sometimes take less because of speed boost...)

Maybe there's a strat in which we can x special D + light screen in order for sharpedo to tank 1 hit from Arceus. 

 

Anyway back to Rock Smash. I suppose Electro ball or Tpunch can be replaced with Rock Smash. 

After you have Nidorina you can always teach rock smash to Nidorina. 


-after rescuing heather from the orphanage, teleport to grand hall to train sharpedo for crunch        not much faster

 

Teleport would be still be GH. I can see how it's faster. 


-after beating shade, teleport to grand hall and go to coral to meet up with amaria            somewhat faster

 

I can also see how this is faster. You would have to back track a little bit to the underground railnet, but def faster than going through the Beryl and Jasper Ward again.

 

After talking to Victoria you could even teleport again back to the Grand Hall to continue your quest to the Coral Ward. 

 

After the meetup with Amaria in the Coral Ward, teleport back to the Grand Hall. 


-after finishing blacksteam factory, teleport to grand hall and go to apophyll                not much faster

 

I think it would save a little time. 


-after beating cal, teleport to apophyll and fight victoria+kiki                    not much faster

 

I think it would save a little time over escape roping.

Here you would need to teach Rock Smash to Nidorina most likely.


-after rescuing cain at azurine island, teleport to apophyll                        somewhat faster

 

I think it would save some time. 


-after beating aya, enter and leave OTS

 

After Aya (see rock smash discussion above) you'd get the calcium, and heart scale. You then exit the Wasteland and go to the Department Store. 

You can stop by the Onix Trainer School and set your teleport location there for sure. 

Then you'd do the Yureyu bit, the railnet puzzle, get the house key, open the door in advance and save the sticker dude and teleport back to the trainer school. Stop by the move tutor, go back to the Obsidia Ward, stop by to collect the sticker and continue on to Tanzan Mountain. Perfect. 


-after finishing yureyu and underground railnet, teleport to onyx ward for move tutor            a lot faster

 

See above


-enter and leave belrose manse and go fight serra

 

An important part here is to not enter the pokecenter in Spinel Mart. This can easily be done. You shouldnt take too much damage on this split and can heal anything off. 


-after getting ana's medicine, teleport to belrose manse                        somewhat faster

 

Def good, saves 2-3 repels as well


-after escape roping from tanzan mountain when you finish meteor base, teleport to belrose manse    not much faster

 

Also good, saves 2-3 repels as well


-after beating radomus, train ampharos at grand hall for thunder+dragon pulse

 

After Noel we go through Route 1. I'd first go to Vanhanen Castle, do the Cain fight. Teleport location is set to Vanhanen Castle, so teleporting here isn't an option. 

We would go through route 1 all the way to the Nature Center, pick up the Wide Lens. Then we would go through the Grand Gates and do that whole section. I don't believe you can teleport in there. 

After that and some shopping, we go with Radomus/Gardevoir/Cain back to Vanhanen Castle where we fight Radomus. Teleport location is again set to Vanhanen Castle so we can't teleport to the Grand hall. 

You would go with the crazy Taurus to the Grand Gates and from there to the Grand Hall and continue. 

 

After saving Luna from the Subseven Sanctum, you cannot teleport from there to the GH. You also cannot teleport from 7th street. So you'd have to exit 7th street. Teleporting from there to the GH or the Lapis Center is almost certainly slower so you would go to the crazy Taurus again to transfer you to Vanhanen Castle this time. 


-after beating luna, leave the cave and teleport to grand hall and take the route 2 tauros to agate    somewhat faster

 

This works but I think we'd have to time this. 


-after beating blake, teleport to fiore mansion and go to the circus to fight terra            a lot faster

 

So here we would center and set our teleport hub to Agate Circus. 

We would make our first trip to Fiore Mansion through route 2. That sets our teleport hub to Fiore mansion. We would go back to the Circus. After beating Samson, we go back to Fiore Mansion but our teleport hub is again set to the circus so that unfortunately doesn't work. 

Once again at Fiore mansion, our teleport hub is set to Fiore Mansion. We would go through Ametrine Mountain and through route 3 with Aya and the rest until we reach Calcenon City where we fight Charlotte. 

I suppose you could go through all this without healing. Not taking the center in Calcenon preserves the teleport hub at Fiore Mansion. 

 

After Charlotte, you'd not center. Blaziken should still be alive and kicking. You would revive and heal Sharpedo to use it to destiny bond the Pulse Avalogg. 

Then pick up the light shard to heal to full. 

Then go to Ametrine City. You would do the Sticker event here but not take the center. 

Do all the battle leading up to Blake, your team is auto healed because of the double battles. 

After Blake you would teleport back to Fiore Mansion. From there, back to the Circus it is. This also means skipping the first puzzles in route 2.

This is great!

 

I wonder what happens when you set your Teleport Hub to Fiore Mansion before doing the whole Water Treatment Center gig. 

so after beating Taka, you would teleport to Fiore Mansion. Does this trigger the Meteor assault event? Do you skip talking to Julia and Florinia and the cutscene?

I'll test this. 


-after beating ciel, swap natu for pidove for fly(natu can't learn fly)

 

For sure, it is very unlikely that natu becomes xatu. 

 

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just some notes i took for a practice run, overall it went pretty well. i also wanted to see if getting the choice band was worth it and i would say long term yes, it only takes like 30 seconds to set up and you get a free onix for the early game with sturdy+rock tomb to lower speed. having choice band on sharpedo also made some battles for the lategame a lot better. blaze as an ability has also been surprisingly helpful, but there are a couple battles i had to reroute by virtue of having blaze, not that there was much time loss all things considered. having blaze also made some battles better like corey. i also didn't teach sharpedo aqua jet since the magma grunts you fight that you use them on in 7th street are entirely optional and can be skipped if you go around them. there should be a total of 15 heart scales which you get after amaria, i'll include some screen shots down below. ampharos can survive judgement from arceus once you lead meowstic and use light screen, getting off cotton spore means sharpedo outspeeds guaranteed. the arceus has 0 ivs and is a quiet nature, it has 180 speed so you would need <90 speed level 51-52 sharpedo to not outspeed it which is impossible. i agree on not getting some rare candies since they are in unfortunate locations and they are during the lategame when you have a lot of money anyway so i wouldn't get the rare candy at the bedroom nor restored malchous forest. having changed natures on nidoqueen and ampharos to modest after amaria made the glass section and the agate takeover much smoother and is definitely worth it long term.

 

blaze torchic
-will not outspeed surskit trainer so potion beforehand
-let torchic keep holding cheri berry after beating fern(need it for victoria if pichu paralyzes with static or pansear with lick)
-take the early light shard if golbat trainer weakens combusken
-flame charge into double kick twice the lunatone trainer in malchous forest
-need at least 42 speed combusken to outspeed corey's crobat at +3, get blaze range before killing marenie to kill everything 
-flame charge twice to outspeed maxie's houndoom
-flame charge once to outspeed cal's and victoria's(who is right after) entire team

don't sell normal gem, will be needing it for victoria's ralts

 

-only catch level 11-13 poochyena, sr if it is run away
-switch train to combusk on second trainer (always)
-lead poochy for second to last trainers in factory and switch to combusk, will get 17 from last trainers from prior exp (only for level 11)
-equip elemental seed for julia if bad defense, minun will use nuzzle if you don't

 

equip normal gem on espurr and teach charge beam over scratch
talk to hiker, go into house talk to landlord, go back to hiker, go into house and get onix(sr until sturdy)
beat youngster with bellsprout and posh lady with meowths(use charge beam for alolan meowth) on opal bridge with espurr

for victoria use leer on ralts, then covet three times. should be level 12 before facing ralts
let combusken kill pichu, for torracat go to espurr and switch to onix and rock tomb twice. revenge kill with combusken.
teach light screen over covet on ralts
potion espurr twice and combusken once after victoria, potion espurr twice again after beating the trainer right before the slums
let espurr kill pidgey and weaken pidove, but switch to combusken to let it kill pidove for the trainer right before the slums
stay in on chingling's yawn then go to mightyena and bite, let espurr beat mankey
switch to combusken after getting light shard in slums and repel after catching pidove
grab great ball in the slums next to the extrance in the stairs
kill cain's poplio with espurr, go pidove to heal espurr on cubone and kill with espurr, go onix on nidorino and rock tomb twice and kill with espurr
teach psybeam over confusion, and teach fake out over leer once espurr is able to


don't sell electric gem, will be needing it for cain's brionne
for fern's dartrix, go to onix and rock tomb twice, switch to espurr and let mightyena chip it and die and revenge with combusken
let combusken fight the pignite trainer before the library instead of meowstic

 

REROUTED TAKA+ZEL FOR BLAZE COMBUSKEN
-fake out+flame charge glaceon
-flame charge+psyshock espeon(they hard switch glaceon to espeon here) -if they don't hard switch espeon reset, they rarely don't switch to it
-double kick chatot+psyshock espeon(they hard switch exeggute to chatot here)
-double kick chatot and go mareep(mareep gets level 16 off chatot but dies to umbreon)
-fake out+double kick umbreon(umbreon's ability is set to synchronize not inner focus)
-double kick umbreon and potion combusken
-flame charge glaceon and potion meowstic(should get level 31 and teach bulk up over cut)
-bulk up and potion meowstic
-bulk up and potion meowstic(combusken should be in blaze after leech seed damage)
-flame charge exeggcute and light screen
-flame charge+psyshock tangrowth(tangrowth vine whips meowstic but survives)
-flame charge tangrowth

heal meowstic with a potion and combusken super potion after the battle (want meowstic 35-45 hp and combusken at full or near full)

 

REROUTED COREY FOR BLAZE COMBUSKEN (only need +5 with blaze)
-fake out skrelp twice and be brought to red
-kill it off and fake out croagunk on sucker
-light screen and die, if he suckers on light screen use charge beam next turn
-x attack then use bulk up twice, heal if necessary(need to have >1/4 hp for aftermath)
-kill off croagunk and skuntank with flame charge
-if you are at really low, use a potion on marenie, it will use bite (need to be in blaze before killing)
-kill off marenie, nidorina and crobat with flame charge

 

REROUTED FERN 3 FOR BLAZE BLAZIKEN
-double kick and flame charge rhyhorn
-bulk up twice on krokorok as it uses dig(ability set to moxie)
-kill everything with +2 blaze flame charge

 

equip electric gem onto ampharos for cain, want to guarantee knock out brionne lead
kill everything with ampharos and let meowstic kill nidoking
don't teach mightyena rock smash, teach it to ampharos over thunderpunch(can't send mons with tmx moves to pc when catching natu)

lead meowstic and fake out natu, use a great ball after and send mightyena to pc and teleport to grand hall

 

REROUTED ZEL 3 FOR BLAZE BLAZIKEN (hold metronome)
-lead blaze and guard spec
-bulk up x3 then flame charge and sweep

 

REROUTED CAL FOR BLAZE BLAZIKEN (hold charcoal)
-discharge barbaracle and switch to meowstic on hakamo-o
-fakeout+reflect+light screen+psychic and switch to blaziken on turtonator
-bulk up x3 and double kick+flame charge turtonator
-blaze kick charizard and sweep with double kick

 

REROUTED VICTORIA 5 FOR BLAZE BLAZIKEN (hold cheri berry)
-double kick+bulk up+flame charge pangoro
-bulk up x2 on mienfoo, heal if needed(make sure you are in blaze before you kill it)
-kill everything with flame charge and double kick incineroar

 

when teleporting from azurine island to apophyll, make sure you activate cutscene of victoria calling you

 

REROUTED FERN 4 FOR BLAZE BLAZIKEN (hold charcoal)
-meowstic use reflect(light clay) and sacrifice natu to stone edge
-go to blaziken and double kick rhyhorn
he goes to decidueye so bulk up x2 as he swords dances and sweep with flame charge, double kick krook

 

AYA
-she will go drapion>venusaur if nidoqueen is faster than venusaur after salazzle dies, if so use discharge+earth power to knock it out
-earth power venusaur next turn and heal nidoqueen and do the same thing again the turn after
-earth power dragalge and sacrifice natu, if nidoqueen has lower health than ampharos heal nidoqueen instead to take dragon pulse
-switch ampharos to natu if nidoqueen got icy winded after nidoqueen has got dragon pulsed
-earth power dragalge and discharge toxapex after

 

after getting the power items, when going to onyx to set up for teleportation, battle the two trainers in the ward to ev train
after finishing yureyu, teach blaziken rock smash over double kick to free the man for the sticker, use an escape rope after and then teleport to onyx
after using the move relearner on blaziken, use an ability capsule to change it to speed boost if it was blaze
buy 3 rare candies, some super repels, some full heals and a pokedoll before heading to chrysolia, rare candy meowstic to level 50(train south of chrysolia isn't open until you beat serra, you will have enough for 3 but does mean you can't splurge on berry ice creams which is why you need to buy 3)

on the way to the pokemart to get medicine, make sure to talk to the tree to the south of the forest to access the lost train to get hidden items


for sigmund, give sharpedo back metronome, blaziken power bracer and ampharos power lens. the battle still plays out the same.
don't use x attack for cain vs muk, bulk up x4 instead

 

radomus version for malamar>metagross turn 2
-heal nidoqueen and use bulk up with blaziken (sr if malamar uses reflect or crits nidoqueen)
-sacrifice natu and use x attack
-heal nidoqueen and use flare blitz on malamar
-fire punch+crunch slowking
-heal nidoqueen or blaziken depending who gallade targetted last turn and use fire punch on metagross
-fire punch gardevoir and gallade

 

don't battle magma grunts in 7th street, they are optional and can go around them
teach sharpedo rock smash>strength during iolia valley
when getting life orb, teach strength>sludge wave on nidoqueen and reteach sludge wave over it after

make sure to give ampharos metronome>rock incense for ciel, only need 2 x sp atks and 2 or 3 x speeds depending on speed


get heart scale in adrienn's gym and get choice band from hiker after beating adrienn

teach rock smash>sludge wave on nidoqueen for train puzzle

go up waterfall on the left to get heart scale on flower in amaria's gym
from entrance, go down and follow path until waterfall. talk to titania and go back to entrance and go left. at the crossroads, go down and find amaria.
after convincing her, go to the top left entrance in the room and follow the path. at the crossroads go up and follow path to entrance. get full restore.

 

new amaria strat
-give sharpedo choice band
-light screen into misty terrain
-xspdef and x attack twice
-crunch and sweep

 

after beating amaria fly to lapis and nature change ampharos and nidoqueen to modest, then go to labradorra and meet up with hardy
teach rock climb over rock smash and waterfall over dive. at the pc in glass, don't teach sludge wave over rock climb yet(we need rock climb for hardy's gym and sludge wave isn't going to be used until then) and get mightyena and teach it rock smash
give sharpedo choice band, blaziken wide lens, nidoqueen life orb, ampharos exp share for glass, charcoal and soft sand for gauntlet
for the double battle in the glass factory, lead sharpedo and mightyena. waterfall zoroark and sacrifice mightyena(trevenant uses bulldoze), send in blaziken after and sweep 
for aster, waterfall solrock, reflect with meowstic, send in blaze and bulk up into flare blitz, hjk krook, switch to pedo and waterfall to sweep
for agate takeover, give sharpedo black glasses but in the gym give it choice band to kill the first and second trainer with waterfall

 

95cdb8faf9.png

 

 66b17f5d89.png

 

0480ade999.png

 

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I was testing to see what would happen if you teleported to Fiore Mansion after beating Taka. 

I decided to start from after beating Terra so to do the Taka split over with the changes (picking up Life Orb).

 

The strat used in PB is:

 

1.       Taka fight.

·         Main Blaziken (should be lvl 73/74) with charcoal Pay Attention to Blaziken’s level. The level cap is 75 and there are 3 fights coming up.

·         X-attack

·         Heal PAR

·         Fire punch Klefki,

·         HJK Minior,

·         Flate blitz Gliscor

·         HJK Exeggcutor,

·         FP Chatot,

·         HJK Komala 

Blaziken should be lvl 74 after

 

You suggested having Wide Lens here. Unfortunately this means the Gliscor Flare Blitz isn't guaranteerd to KO. But I think the odds of not getting the range are better than the odds of hitting 3 HJK's at 90% so wide lens > charcoal would still be worth it. 

This is with the following Blaziken btw:

image.png.088403987ba8c6d99cf736548a22c279.png

 

 

Ok after beating Taka, if you exit the Water Treatment Center and use teleport to Teleport to Fiore Mansion, nothing basically happens. The meteor event isn't triggered yet. You have to move down to start the Florinia and Julia cutscene, which makes sense because you also get fly from Florinia. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Okay this run is super impressive, speedruns are always fun.
I did notice something, that may or may not help cut maybe a minute or so, that is I don't think commonly known, especially since that section seems under consideration anyway.

You mention that you go for the Story split where Saphira is the one kidnapped, because it cuts a battle in Tanzan Mountain's Base, that is true, but as a result of my sideproject of keeping track of the Meteor Grunts (there is a lot of attention to Detail here, might have to make a post about that at some point) i noticed that this specific story split also adds 3 extra Battles much later in the Game (95% confidence here, haven't got around to double checking it, but am pretty sure based on other runs), namely:

-1 Multibattle on Route 3 (step 404 in your Route Doc from your older thread)

-1 Multibattle on Ametrine Mountain (step 444, the battle on the screen where Cal remarks that "they are coming out of the Woodworks")

-1 Battle in Agate City before Solaris (step 619, the single Female Meteor Ace)

not sure if it helps (might mess up the exp routing and all, but I thought I mention it anyway)
 

Edited by Falirion

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Yeah that would def. be interesting. 

I had noticed differences as well but never quite linked them to who gets kidnappend. Figured other choices like giving Blake the Ruby Ring would also impact that. 

Very interesting and def something to consider!

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Posted (edited)

I think i the ingame cause is the fact that Saphira kills the 2 doorguards at Tanzan if she isn't kidnapped, the 3 extra battles are with the same 2 people (Demian and Antoine), so they are probably there when saphira is kidnapped because they survive in this route, and don't in the others
 

Certainly possible that other Story Splits have relevant minor changes like that, the Ruby Ring split specifically as far as i know though only flips you AI partners section of the climb, (Cal first, then Shelly if you don't hand it over, other way around if you do), and moves Aster between appearing at Ametrine or Glasswork Station,
Also Heather gets a Convo with Blake halfway up the Mountain if you hand the ring over but i think she gets an equally long one with Cal and Shelly if you keep it at the same spot

Quote

On more or less the same subject, the story split in which you either win or lose against Solaris on Mt. Pyrous is another thing that can be looked into. Maybe Florinia would be a better partner later in the Fiore Mansion Gauntlet. I don't really think so though. Also considering the time it would take for Garchomp to KO your entire team, it seems like this would be slower overall.  

From what I know what difference this Story Split makes so far, I don't think losing to Chomp would help at all, It knocking out your team would be slower for Chomp itself, same with boxing part of the team to make that faster and picking them up after. and on Fiore Gauntlet, i think losing to Chomp shortens the Scene after the Fern & Blake Battle, but with speed up and all, i don't think thats a relevant amount of time, and Florinia Vs. Solaris & Oderly John, is honestly just plain worse than Julia, Team as well as AI, i think it's commonly agreed that Florinia in that fight just sucks, to put it bluntly, Florinia's Team according to PBS files if you are curious:

Spoiler

HIPPOWDON,64,SMOOTHROCK,CRUNCH,SLACKOFF,ROCKSLIDE,YAWN,0,F,0,false,IMPISH,30,70,,false
TORTERRA,67,,SUPERPOWER,WOODHAMMER,LEECHSEED,CRUNCH,0,M,0,false,ADAMANT,31,70,,false
FERROTHORN,68,ROCKYHELMET,LEECHSEED,THUNDERWAVE,POWERWHIP,GYROBALL,0,F,0,false,BRAVE,1,70,,false
BRELOOM,69,TOXICORB,SPORE,DRAINPUNCH,LEECHSEED,GIGADRAIN,1,F,0,false,QUIRKY,31,70,,false
TROPIUS,67,SITRUSBERRY,BODYSLAM,LEAFBLADE,DRAGONDANCE,FLY,2,F,0,false,JOLLY,31,70,,false
CRADILY,71,LEFTOVERS,CURSE,ROCKSLIDE,RECOVER,SEEDBOMB,0,F,0,false,CAREFUL,31,70,,false

Yes they are not EV'd aka 85 all stats even

Edited by Falirion
Considerartion for other Story Split

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With reference to this topic:

 

 

The sticker event where you need to save the boy from a Drifloom on a windy day is free after city restoration. 

This means we can always pick up this sticker. 

 

So we would pickup:

 

1. Jasper ward girl

2. Apophyl Academy tv girl

3. Lost guy in underground railnet

4. Injured teleported woman from spinel town in Chrysolia Forest

5. Agate city ice cream/pokedoll/air ballon boy

6. Ametrine city MissingNo

7. Lost boy windy weather sticker event after restoration

Since we only need 6, we could skip one. 

 

I see two possibilities:

 

1. If it's raining in Spinel Town, skip the injured woman sticker event. Instead, do the other ones like you would normally do and then after Ciel pick up the Lost Boy Drifloom Sticker in the Lapis Ward. 

 

2. If it's not raining in Spinel town, do the injured woman sticker event. Skip the sticker event with the MissingNo Computer in Ametrine City. As a replacement, pick up the free sticker in Lapis Ward after restoration. 

 

The second option would work out very well since you don't want to take the center in Ametrine City because of teleport. 

 

If the injured women sticker event isn't fixed, you can decide mid run what to do. 

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On 10/6/2019 at 8:31 AM, Falirion said:

I think i the ingame cause is the fact that Saphira kills the 2 doorguards at Tanzan if she isn't kidnapped, the 3 extra battles are with the same 2 people (Demian and Antoine), so they are probably there when saphira is kidnapped because they survive in this route, and don't in the others
 

Certainly possible that other Story Splits have relevant minor changes like that, the Ruby Ring split specifically as far as i know though only flips you AI partners section of the climb, (Cal first, then Shelly if you don't hand it over, other way around if you do), and moves Aster between appearing at Ametrine or Glasswork Station,
Also Heather gets a Convo with Blake halfway up the Mountain if you hand the ring over but i think she gets an equally long one with Cal and Shelly if you keep it at the same spot

From what I know what difference this Story Split makes so far, I don't think losing to Chomp would help at all, It knocking out your team would be slower for Chomp itself, same with boxing part of the team to make that faster and picking them up after. and on Fiore Gauntlet, i think losing to Chomp shortens the Scene after the Fern & Blake Battle, but with speed up and all, i don't think thats a relevant amount of time, and Florinia Vs. Solaris & Oderly John, is honestly just plain worse than Julia, Team as well as AI, i think it's commonly agreed that Florinia in that fight just sucks, to put it bluntly, Florinia's Team according to PBS files if you are curious:

  Reveal hidden contents

HIPPOWDON,64,SMOOTHROCK,CRUNCH,SLACKOFF,ROCKSLIDE,YAWN,0,F,0,false,IMPISH,30,70,,false
TORTERRA,67,,SUPERPOWER,WOODHAMMER,LEECHSEED,CRUNCH,0,M,0,false,ADAMANT,31,70,,false
FERROTHORN,68,ROCKYHELMET,LEECHSEED,THUNDERWAVE,POWERWHIP,GYROBALL,0,F,0,false,BRAVE,1,70,,false
BRELOOM,69,TOXICORB,SPORE,DRAINPUNCH,LEECHSEED,GIGADRAIN,1,F,0,false,QUIRKY,31,70,,false
TROPIUS,67,SITRUSBERRY,BODYSLAM,LEAFBLADE,DRAGONDANCE,FLY,2,F,0,false,JOLLY,31,70,,false
CRADILY,71,LEFTOVERS,CURSE,ROCKSLIDE,RECOVER,SEEDBOMB,0,F,0,false,CAREFUL,31,70,,false

Yes they are not EV'd aka 85 all stats even

you are right in your assessment that not going with the story split of saphira getting kidnapped results in two grunts surviving and having to face those 3 battles later on, but those three fights are much easier since two of them are partnered with aya and cal, while the last one is easily swept by blaziken. having to do the extra double battle in tanzan is actually worse since it is by yourself and the pokemon they have are not ideal vs our current team since we are also ev training them as well (doing this extra battle also overlevels our pokemon). also the experience given from the the battles on route 3 and on ametrine are essential for blaziken later for certain fights, specifically charlotte and blake and are pretty much free experience since they are with a partner.  i've also tested out the story split of not giving blake the ruby ring, this means we will have to fight aster at ametrine for waterfall as opposed to during the glass section of the game which is longer since sharpedo with waterfall sweeps more than half that fight, having waterfall early on also makes the fights up ametrine in general faster. this also swaps our partners for the trainers up ametrine which isn't too bad, but is notably worse than the route of giving him the ring in the first place. beating solaris 1 is pretty important since it makes solaris 2 with julia>florinia a much better fight, and the experience given early on from a level 75 garchomp is nice. i'm not to familiar of the other story splits in the twins getting kidnapped and laura getting kidnapped, but if there are any notable time saves there i would love to know, this route currently isn't done however since it forces you to fight sigmund at yureyu with cain which is a much harder fight than sirius.

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7 hours ago, bloo123 said:

you are right in your assessment that not going with the story split of saphira getting kidnapped results in two grunts surviving and having to face those 3 battles later on, but those three fights are much easier since two of them are partnered with aya and cal, while the last one is easily swept by blaziken. having to do the extra double battle in tanzan is actually worse since it is by yourself and the pokemon they have are not ideal vs our current team since we are also ev training them as well (doing this extra battle also overlevels our pokemon). also the experience given from the the battles on route 3 and on ametrine are essential for blaziken later for certain fights, specifically charlotte and blake and are pretty much free experience since they are with a partner.  i've also tested out the story split of not giving blake the ruby ring, this means we will have to fight aster at ametrine for waterfall as opposed to during the glass section of the game which is longer since sharpedo with waterfall sweeps more than half that fight, having waterfall early on also makes the fights up ametrine in general faster. this also swaps our partners for the trainers up ametrine which isn't too bad, but is notably worse than the route of giving him the ring in the first place. beating solaris 1 is pretty important since it makes solaris 2 with julia>florinia a much better fight, and the experience given early on from a level 75 garchomp is nice. i'm not to familiar of the other story splits in the twins getting kidnapped and laura getting kidnapped, but if there are any notable time saves there i would love to know, this route currently isn't done however since it forces you to fight sigmund at yureyu with cain which is a much harder fight than sirius.

Dang, that's too bad about the Kidnapping Split, I figured it might mess with the exp routing... but thank's for the confirmation on Demian & Antione.
Well for Ruby Ring and Garchomp splits, we are in agreement then, i pretty much only listed out what i knew the Ruby Ring split does because i misread the initial statment about it, but i figured changes that are there are either not relevant or slower, and chomp... yeah that's pretty much what i figured.
On the other kidnapping routes, from my observation there is no difference between them at all (outside of relationship points, that are not getting used so far), Saphira kidnapped is the only one that is notably different.
seeing as we are talking about story splits, ftr the Reshiram route presumably takes much longer, due to longer cutscene before titania, and Amaria trying to drown you, correct? (and Z-move vs Mega on amaria might also be relevant)
i don't think the choice at Dittoceus currently does anything in the long run (it only immediatly makes Dittoceus either an optional or mandatory win)
and the police split pretty much only changes dialogue and and corey's fight (and the later is most definetly not worth the time spend on getting police men, even if it was a faster fight, which i am not convinced of)
... you can probably ignore that later half of the post completly, just wanted to put my thought on all story splits out there

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On 10/3/2019 at 5:43 PM, Arkadius said:

Just a new post for clarity's sake:

 

The rare candy list is very insightful. The reason I didn't pick up the one in the Dr Connal's personal torture (or fetish) establishment is that I actually didn't know about it. 

 

- Rare Candy (rock top of the upper left elevated area) - tourmaline desert *** (optional)

Do you have an image for this one? 

 

- Rare Candy (at the bedroom, after the battle with Titania) - once upon a somewhere

I knew about this one, but it takes some time to go back there instead of simply jumping down the holes to exit the gym. I believe there is another rare candy here, but I'm not sure. Maybe we're talking about the same one. E: we're talking about the same one:

image.png.7df774cd76d7950cc7e41327ba54f09c.png

 

It just takes a bunch of time to exit the gym now. You can't escape rope or teleport unfortunately. 

 

There is another Candy in Malchous Forest after the restoration of Reborn we could consider:

image.png.7e18ec3036fa030d02a6c5edd71c2a77.png

 

But it's quite slow to pick up as you have to go through the forest first, jump some ledges and then exit again. You could do this on the way to Victoria when assembling the team for the Devon Mission. Alternatively, if there are any Adrienn-helpers here, it could be a way to combine it. 
__________________________________________

 

Speaking about Dr. Connal. Something maybe worth looking into is the Story split that determines who gets kidnapped and who you fight early. Currently we fight Sirius early. This is mostly because Sirius' team at the Belrose Mansion was incredibly hard to deal with when doing the primative routing/testing. Dr. Connal's team is relatively easy, whether you fight him first at the treatment center or later at the Belrose Mansion. Sirius' team at the treatment center is annoying for sure, but it's manageable. 

 

The different outcomes are:

1. Fight Dr. Connal in Yureyu Building & go up in Belrose Mansion -> Laura Kidnapped

2. Fight Dr. Connal in Yureyu Building & stay downstaris  in Belrose Mansion -> Noel/Anna kidnapped

 

3. Fight Sirius in Yureyu Building & stop Sirius  in Belrose Mansion -> Shelly/Charlotte kidnapped

4. Fight Sirius in Yureyu Building & stop Dr. Connal in Belrose Mansion -> Saphira kidnapped

 

Currently, we go for option 4. This results in Saphira getting kidnapped and you going with Laura to rescue her. This turns out not to be needed though, as Saphira breaks free on her own, taking down the two meteor guards guarding her cell. In the other scenario's this is a forced double battle. The EXP isn't really needed. Money isn't an issue, so this fight seems redundant. 

 

Considering the changes made since originally routing this, maybe an alternative scenario would be faster. It's just very difficult to estimate this. 

______________________________________

 

On more or less the same subject, the story split in which you either win or lose against Solaris on Mt. Pyrous is another thing that can be looked into. Maybe Florinia would be a better partner later in the Fiore Mansion Gauntlet. I don't really think so though. Also considering the time it would take for Garchomp to KO your entire team, it seems like this would be slower overall. 

_______________________________________

 

 

About the rare candy in titania castle, i aways get it before the fight, instead of climbing the vines just go back and run to the bedroom it should be there, and save some time.

 

Edited by WildRoad
just messed up the word bedroom

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On 10/25/2019 at 6:31 PM, WildRoad said:

About the rare candy in titania castle, i aways get it before the fight, instead of climbing the vines just go back and run to the bedroom it should be there, and save some time.

 

I thought you meant the candy would spawn after exiting the tower for the first time, but it only seems to spawn after jumping down the hole in the ground. 

You could get the candy before Titania too, but after that you still need to climb the vines again and go to Titania again. Or is there another way I'm missing?

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Actualy i belive its a camera trick, when you go back in that room you can barely see where the item spawn, i usualy wait the books spawn and go back to the bedroom and usualy its there. 

I'm re playing the game and i should get back there in a couple hours so i can test different ways to get that candy.

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So i tested it, and its apears that the reborn sandbox mode its a little diferent, as i said before i could get it earlier but its only happens on the sandbox mode where simply going out on the window and coming back got me the candy, but recently i tried on reborn  without any mod and the candy only apears after the fight ( or the jump thingy ), so yeah i made a big WHOPS. The more you know !

On 10/27/2019 at 4:56 PM, WildRoad said:

Actualy i belive its a camera trick, when you go back in that room you can barely see where the item spawn, i usualy wait the books spawn and go back to the bedroom and usualy its there. 

I'm re playing the game and i should get back there in a couple hours so i can test different ways to get that candy.

 

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