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ZappoNinja

A popular theory has a big loop hole!

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Alright so I was just thinking. People are theorizing that Melia is Maria/Marianette. I theorized this too. It only makes sense. But then... as I was replaying the game I encountered Maria and Anathea in their home. And Anathea said Maria was doing advanced calculus at like age 5. Saying she's a genius with numbers being able to calculate any equation almost instantly. There's a big loop hole with the Melia is Maria theory because of this. Why? Because I just remembered when you first go through Aquamarine Cave if you talk to Valarie and hang out she talks about how she went to Axis High and then Melia shows up saying she attempted to get in at one point but then said she flunked the exam to get in and she said that she did fine on everything else but she sucks at math. So how could they be the same person if one is a super genius at math and the other sucks at it? Maybe she is Maria and whatever made Melia lose her memories of being Maria somehow made her suck at math. But for now, what if the theory is false!?

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Well, it's a fact Marianette (Gym Leader) shares her sprite with Melia (The last time we got to control her) so they are, if not the same person or an Alternate version like the Bad future, they're at least twins. You also got the fact that Venam knows Marianette (Recognizes Indriad, actually) and Maria (Again, recognizes Indriad as Vitus) but doesn't recognize them as Melia.

I think it may be that Maria and Melia are the same person from different times (Team Xen took her from Indriad and gave her a new identity as Jenner's stepdaughter) and Marianette is another version of her. After all, she was supposed to be the Normal-Type leader in this Timeline, and her Togekiss (her first pokémon, I think) presented to her after being with Jenner so it woudn't present a conflict between his team in the game's Timeline and Marianette's.

 

But, well, that's all speculation until we advance in the story so...

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Last time I controlled Melia it showed her caped Emma sprite for the trainer card and then when I controlled Ren it showed Maria's sprite for when we controlled Marianette so clearly I think the trainer cards are busted. Less you're talking about something else when you say that they share sprites. And for the rest perhaps. Either way there's a lot to be found out in future chapters. a lot to be uncovered.

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During the arc in Kristiline town when Melia is being sacrificed, you see her Sprite flicker and change to her old look and then Maria's Sprite. So at the very least, they were the same person at one time or another but whatever happened between Maria/Marianette/Melia has made them distinct different people.

 

Melia sucking at math may be a product of those events. It's less important to have a smart sacrifice the more you do it.

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18 minutes ago, ZappoNinja said:

Last time I controlled Melia it showed her caped Emma sprite for the trainer card and then when I controlled Ren it showed Maria's sprite for when we controlled Marianette so clearly I think the trainer cards are busted. Less you're talking about something else when you say that they share sprites. And for the rest perhaps. Either way there's a lot to be found out in future chapters. a lot to be uncovered.

Yeah, maybe you're right. It seemed a strange coincidence for it to be just that. But anyways I think the timelines could add, with Marianette being a present (or recent past) alternate Melia and Maria being the previous incarnation of both her and Melia.

So we also have two versions of Maria, the one in the prologue and the house near Sashila, when her mom's cool and her dad's also cool until he sacrifices her (alone with no cult) and Madame X appears to (I think) take her out, and the flashback/timetravel one when Anathea dies by Dark Gardevoir's doing (+ cult) and Maria's imprisoned.

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Yeah, can't wait until we figure out why there's two versions of Maria myself.

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I think at this point we have to factor alternate dimensions, memory loss AND time travel, here's something i always thought was curious, Marianette after her Gym battle, regains her memory, and here's the screwy part, she remember Venam and us, so what if it's the other way around and Melia become Marianette? There is also the possibility that the Maria we meet in the past with dark Gardevoir is an alternate version and not just a past version. Let's not even go into those fan theories that state Madame X is future Melia, though Madam X's comment about her mother raises a few questions. 

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I think that when Marianette said she remembered us it may have been from when we showed up in the past like 5 years earlier to her as Indriad makes comment that he's clearly seen us before but you wouldn't notice unless you already had played through the game before. For instance when meeting him the first time when he's already turned into Indriad he stops the maid from teleporting you at first because he realizes you're that kid he saw show up with some weird girl several years ago and he doesn't stop Venam as she looks completely different compared to her more formal looking self he sees in the past. Plus how he says that two people in this room have witnessed Marianette's mother's death meaning you and him. There's still plenty to do in the past so we may or may not do something in which will make Marianette remember us doing something for her in the future when we fight her gym battle so yeah. Honestly it's all confusing but well planned out.

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Okay I don't know what exactly you're talking about there but I also found another loop hole. Maria was still with Indriad when she was 10. On the train to Grand Dream City in my current playthrough and she said the last time she went to Grand Dream City was when she was 6 or 7 years old. With Jenner. Something definitely ain't adding up here. Also she said she lived in East Gearen for 14 years and considering Melia was about 15-16 when Team Xen attacked that means that she's been there even longer than it physically would be possible for her to have.

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There's another point that we have to consider as well, Anathea only appearing when Maria is close-by. She never appears during our present timeline even after keeping her in the Soul Stone, and it might be because of other factors... But the fact that Anathea doesn't appear whenever we're around Melia suggests the fact that they aren't really exactly the same?

 

It's also hinted that Melia/Maria/Marianette is one of the Lights prophecised, and the fortune teller down in uh, the underground bladestar base in GDC recounts that one of the Lights has the power of Arceus. I read somewhere that these lights are not born from man, so... The question really boils down to how Melia actually came about. Since it isn't plausible that she has biological parents as Maria/Mariannette has. 

 

Another thing to note is Nymeria connection to Vitus. They've been long enemies and if you've done the Narcissa quest up to the recent addition, you get to see an audition tape between Narcissa's husband and Gregory. Surprise, surprise, Narcissa's husband was actually Vitus. 

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Yeah, I noticed that too about Anathea. Though do we actually know if Maria is biologically from them or could she have been adopted? It's most likely she was biologically born from Vitus and Anathea but we haven't gotten confirmation on that yet. To my knowledge at least.

 

And tbh during the Narcissa quest before I even got to the tape, like when I looked at the photo, I thought to myself "Wait, ain't that Vitus/Indriad?" and lo and behold it was.

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My idea is that there were at least two Marias, the one from the prologue and Sashila's house, who was taken by Madame X and made into Melia (later given to Dr. Jenner for a while, then he met Togepi and all we know) and the Maria we see in flashbacks or time travel, whose house isn't the same as the one with the prologue. There is also Gardevoir and the cult (something absent from Maria-Melia's backstory) and the fact that Anthea dies by the Gardevoir and not the same as the prologue. 

Then we got Marianette, whose background is similar, but again, different house composition and no satanic Gardevoir. 

And evidently the Princess from the bad future, establishing the existence of alternate versions of people. 

 

Plus, an interesting factor in all of this is how Maria's (and probably Marianette's, too) scenes are situated before the catastrophe, 50 years ago. So either way there is time travel involved, and the only character able to time travel at that point is the one appearing at the end of the prologue in front of Maria and the one we know is after Team Xen's use of Dr. Jenner taking care of Melia. 

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I always thought the Sashila house was just another one of those loops that Maria was placed under during her confinement — always ending with her sacrifice. So why is it that the Interceptor returns to that area whenever they die? It isn’t surprising that the Calamity might’ve changed the whole landscape from before to a desert. 

 

What is Maria’s connection to the Interceptor? I feel like this is a question that needs to be answered before we can explore the possible theories of alternate versions.

 

I suspect that Madame X creating different alternate timelines resulting in the Melia/Maria(nette) split is plausible, and the fact that Marianette remembers her real name in whichever sacrificial loop she’s in(this is just inferred) just adds on to the reveal that Melia is fundamentally Maria still. She still remembers how she’s sacrificed and resists it the same way she did during the last loop that ended with Maria confronting Indriad.

 

(What I don’t understand is.... How the heck has he lived through the Calamity, when did he even fuse with Anju?? It definitely happened after the Wispy Tower incident since its not possible to have him run around looking young like he did before the Calamity. What is this man.) 

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Wait, Indriad fused with Anju? Is that what I saw happen in that little secret cutscene in Anjie's dimension?

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It was possible to live thought the Calamity (Celia and Taelia, Anjou, the Blakeorys...) We can assume Indriad, who produced it, was prepared. 

And yes, they're supposed to be fused, sharing their evilness, their Maid servants and their interest in Melia. 

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Also Narcissa said she lived through the calamity. And huh... I didn't know that. That explains why she went insane.

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But that was when she was a child, Indriad iirc doesn't seme a day old since we met him in the past. 

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I may be misremembering but I'm like 90% sure that Vitus is like the first human and immortal or something. I dunno. Playing through the game again right now and I'm about to travel into the past to do the fucking up time part so in about two or three days I'll be able to more accurately say if he is or isn't the first human/immortal.

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The math bit is probably there to throw the player off the trail. The differences between Melia and Maria are easily explained by the former being the reincarnation of the latter, Aelita style. After all, the Prophecy of Light needs "four lights not born of man".

Edited by Kite Silvers

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ok now we need to know what happened to maria 🔪 

 

who hurt her 

 

(still though, the connection between Maria and The Interceptor is 👀, why does did the Interceptor inhibit Maria's mind at the beginning of the game and return to the house whenever they experience death) 

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So is Nim/Lorna actually Nymeria? Or just something else entirely, I don't exactly recall the proper connection 

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