Myrrh Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) Near the end of episode 12, we see Nim is the one who is turning everyone to stone. What strikes me here is Venam recognizing Nim as well as trying to appeal to being friends with her when Venam had not been traveling with us when Nim had been. From Nim saving us at Blacksteeple Castle to turning to stone, Venam had not been present at all. Now, I realize that Nim had stated to have watched Venam battle when we had first met her, but she never once stated she directly interacted with Venam, nor would it even amend this issue if she had as Venam frames her dialogue as if she was apart of the Blacksteeple Castle group. Nim would also not see any reason to feel ill will to Venam either as Venam could not possibly have abandoned her given she was not within the group either. One also can't even try to say she could connect her to the party sent to save her as Nim very clearly states that she only believed the player character to have tried to come save her. (Chapter 13 Spoilers) Spoiler Another plot hole I had found is with regard to Braixen when Lavender finds her. Braixen shows recognition upon her mentioning Venam's name, but I can't really remember a single instance where Venam and Braixen had interacted for this to make sense. As Adam and Braixen had went back to guard the Team Xen warship when Venam had showed up at Kakori Village and Venam only officially rejoined our group when we asked her about the CD Amber had asked us to regain from her. One can't even try and bring up Saki coming in on her invention on Valor Mountain as Braixen had not come along with the group so couldn't even gain recognition of Venam through that. I feel both of these can be summed up with forgetting when Venam had officially rejoined the main character's party or group. I'm also only bringing it up to either receive an explanation on either of these instances or to see them possibly fixed or remedied in a future release. Edited May 20, 2019 by Myrrh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kithas Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 I think Venam got updated by Melia when she arrived at Kakori Island, and that's how she learned from Nim and everything that happened. She was there when we failed in saving Nim too, and I guess if the girl was magically petrified she could have recognized her from then. I'd doesn't really matter because Crescent messed with her memories, so... As for Braixen and Venam, I think they were both part of the gang around the volcanic rescue and trip to the past events, so it's possible they interacted behind the scenes, or that Melia talked about Venam solehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrrh Posted May 19, 2019 Author Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, kithas said: I think Venam got updated by Melia when she arrived at Kakori Island, and that's how she learned from Nim and everything that happened. She was there when we failed in saving Nim too, and I guess if the girl was magically petrified she could have recognized her from then. I'd doesn't really matter because Crescent messed with her memories, so... As for Braixen and Venam, I think they were both part of the gang around the volcanic rescue and trip to the past events, so it's possible they interacted behind the scenes, or that Melia talked about Venam solehow The issue is that her being updated or not shouldn't allow her to count Nim as a friend as they never once really interacted. This doesn't change regardless if she went to go help save Nim or not either as I'm not taking issue with her dialogue pertaining to going to help save Nim with Melia and the player character, but her trying to appeal to being her friend when they had never interacted. She should realize that Nim wouldn't recognize her back anyways (she shouldn't be aware that Nim was watching her gym battles, nor was she ever hinted at being aware of this.) Venam's, "We're friends right?" and her questioning, "Why the hell not? when Nim said no in this case comes off jarring due to this. That doesn't organically flow with your explanation as Venam comes off as believing that Nim would recognize her back as a friend. Crescent messing with her memories also doesn't explain Venam's side, nor does it really fix things as it forces the players to assume that Crescent had added memories of Venam with the group earlier than she had come in. The only alterations we are shown are that she believed that she was forsaken by everyone else and that only the player character had come to save her. I could see Venam recognizing her from having seen her stone state, but I feel like she'd not have had long enough time to see her given how quick the whole series of scenes took place. Remember that Zetta and Geara caught onto Melia's deception quickly and Giratina had intercepted the player and Venam's attention not too long after. Venam in particular is the first one to see Giratina and is watching it for the whole time it appears. After Jenner tries his rescue on Nim, Venam then ends up battling a grunt in battle. So while I could see this being least jarring, it still requires me to apply suspension of belief to fully believe it. Venam has been shown to be perceptive when she needs to be so it's not entirely out of the ordinary, just hard to believe given what I said. Braixen had not come along with Saki, Valerie, and Adam. Adam states, "Braixen is lucky she didn't have to ride on this thing...I think I'm going to be sick..." This destroys any chance for Venam and Braixen to have logically interacted with each other. As Venam is with us from receiving her help with getting Amber to move to the events of Valor Mountain. In this time she only interacts with the player character, Melia, Valerie, and Saki and only sees Adam at Valor Mountain. Edited May 19, 2019 by Myrrh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoraBell Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Venam sees nim hanging over the volcano and is made apparent of her situation. Though it means her memory is very good. It is technically consistent with Venam recognizing her. the braixen thing is true since I don’t think Venam is ever mentioned while braixen is near the party enough to know that we knew her. So good eye there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus543 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) That's a problem when writing so many characters, you don't have much chances to have some of them interact that much. Lorna's big reveal of her hatred of Melia sort of falls flat a bit because they interacted just twice. NIm's really just friends with us and MAYBE Aelita considering Nim saved her at Blacksteeple. That said, Nim's current predicament is really intriguing to me, but i'm worried Melia will take the spotlight unnecessarily because again, Nim and Melia haven't really interacted much, when most of the drama is between Nim and us, Alexandra and Damien, but mostly us. I attribute Nim's reaction to Venam with Crescent messing with her memories, if you look carefully, Venam seems to be confused as to what Lorna is referring to and honestly knowing Venam, i think she's mostly bluffing to knowing who Nim is, she at least recognizes her from seeing her statue. Venam is in a desperate situation, so i guess she was sort of playing along with Lorna's assertions in an attempt to pacify her. Edited May 23, 2019 by Magus543 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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