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Rejuv hard mode...


Damage

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Playing this game again and I decided on the hardest difficulty. I can honestly say versus the Hardcore reborn mod that this game is more difficult but not in a way where you question your mistakes and know it was great design. This hard mode is straight up broken. With EV trained mons as early as gym 3 and banned moves/item combos on some mons making the fights less about strategy and more about how to cheese them out. No where has it been as bad with this broken AI than my fight with Valerie. I put pasho berry on my solrock and quilfish uses swords dance. I take it off and it goes straight to waterfall. EVERY TIME! This means the AI actually looks at my held items before it makes decisions. This would be okay if the opposite were true. Other times with the game's design mean you can't go back and ev train new mons. Like how I was stuck in a loop against Madelis at Blacksteeple because when you faint and go back to your room the game forces you back into a fight you clearly aren't prepared for. This hard mode is just bad. Every enemy mon has super high level items before gym 6? I half expect the elite four to just have 6 dual type arceus with a field that makes the player confuse their team before battle. At least with Hardcore Reborn I lost battles and said "okay if I had only-" here I say "welp... I guess that's fair now"

 

 

p.s I do really like the game (this is my umpteenth playthrough) just can someone please balance this mode

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I don't know what changed between Version 9 and Version 11, but apparently Intense mode got much harder.  For the most part, I honestly had more trouble with my initial playthrough of Reborn version 16 (when I had barely any knowledge of the finer mechanics/competitive strats/etc)  than with Version 9's Intense mode (barring 2 mindnuming sessions of slamming into a wall until I won with the Normal and Ice leaders).  

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tbh Rejuv always had kind of a balance issue with gyms especially being so pro-leader that you usually need to swap out mons in order to progress. Where as reborn was a matter of using what you had better and just git gud. I think Reborn is overall more difficult on its standard mode. But yeah I don't reccomend intense mode to anyone unless you feel like devoting time to filling up boxes with ev trained mons that have to go against post-cap trainers and bosses

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Well its hard mode for a reason.  And whether it fits with ones tastes or not differs per person.  I for once am satisfied with the toned up difficulty because previously it felt on par with regular reborn,  while normal mode was even easier than that. Have you even tried rejuv's normal mode? Maybe that difficulty is what fits you better. P sure it is also a bit harder than what it was before.

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well I'm playing it for the first time, went in on Intense Mode without ever seeing anything about it.
am shortly before Valarie now.
I battle in Set style, I'm not what you would call a Pokémon prodigy, but I can find out what I need.
I've been progressing fine.
some hours went by raising some mons here and there, seeing if my ideas work.
by now, some EV training when I needed a couple more Speed or Attack points as well.

Speed up, Exp. All, and the EV rooms really make that part as short as it can get, excluding power items.

doesn't matter if enemies have EV trained mons, you can do it too. especially since the essential Speed Room is available from the start.
if you find that boring, you can debug, or find someone to debug.
if you now say debugging is lame, please decide.
it's either spending less time on an easier difficulty or investing more time for a harder one.

I love it to run into an A-Marowak, wonder why it deals tons of damage, then looking up the mon and understanding that it's having an exclusive item doubling its attack. and that Knock Off is a treasure against it.


can't speak about AI "cheating" with seeing your items, have seen no evidence myself. if true, awkward.


I agree on that scene with Madelis ; technically you can easily fix that with the auto save states, but at least after being knocked out, there should be the possibility to have access to boxes and something to level on.
up to then, even if it defied any logic to leave a certain place, the player was able to do just that, which I thought was very good with a very hard difficulty in mind.


however, overall, I have to disagree. the intense mode is not bad.
opposing mons might have all these tools, all I have is Oran Berries, and yet I prevail.
maybe the AI should complain about unfair competition against humans?
let's not even talk about RNG. it's a historically bad design as a main factor for sure, but you are able to reset unlimited times until you get favourable results.
you could complain about other games' high difficulties and how unfair they are, but then you go out there on youtube and you can easily see people doing it.
really tough modes are (or should) not meant to be cleared without proper investment of thought and/or time.

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I cheesed only 3 boss battles. Flying gym type i used Feraligatr with sheer force, 6x dragon dance and one shot everything. Same thing for one rift pokemon. Also Madame X battle with revive spam (but you have to cheese her in every single mode if you want to win). It is hard, yes, but with good pokemons, good training and knowledge of enemy pokemons its possible. And yea, im not using set battle mode.

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While I'll admit I did make use of Sand Rush Lycanroc to take care of fast nukes I didn't rely on it to win everything...just mostly Greninja. There are a few things that I say are borderline but I say the game is pretty fair on how it handle difficulty for intense mode. I used set mode, no items and I can tell you that you learn fast what works and doesn't work. If you run into the game like you can use anything of course you'll get your ass handed to you as the fights are handled a little backwards. Most mons with supereffective moves are deadweight in gyms. Hitting Nim with Dark Types does barely any damage if at all for example. There's plenty of options and strategies to handle most stuff.

 

I do wish how to change difficulty was handled better as I think the current method is a bit ridiculous and often times you can't even change it in times you'd want to. It's very inconvenient to run all the way to Gearen City and pay 3 shards to change the difficulty then pay 3 shards to change it back. I think the Redux players would absolutely lose it if I simply decided you had to select the difficulty at the start and you couldn't select any of the two fights unless you went to HCHQ and paid 5,000 Poke. That's simply taking a free service and making it now inconvenient. I really wish it was just a menu option but I'd take gym statues doing it.

 

I'm certainly not the best Pokemon player or even close and I managed even with the restrictions I put on. I didn't EV train and I rarely bothered with IVs and I still got to the end. It does lean on the border sometimes but I wouldn't say the game's too ridiculous that it needs heavy nerfs. But if you think Intense is too much, there's no shame in playing on Normal mode which is still really fun and difficult in its own way (quite a bit harder than reg Reborn imo). Anyone who looks down on that should get their head out of their high horse's ass. Intense wasn't made for everyone.

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And let's not forget that Reborn already is at least quite the hiccup for a loooot of people, especially (naturally) on first playthrough.
... Gosh I was so innocent concerning Pokémon.

It's only natural that anything harder than that requires more prep, and from what I've felt so far, Intense seems to step quite a bit above that.
And if there's really any situation in which you despair, I'm sure there's people to ask!

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Oh no, I've only recently started my intense run *gulps* 

 

Spirit keta is as far as ive gotten as of the moment, took a little bit of strategy to beat thanks to his assortment of stupidly powerful fully evolved mons. Seriously why the fuck does he need a Donphan and a frigging Gallade?!

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I played my second run in Rejuvenation on Intense Mode, and indeed, agreeding with most of the people, it is not made for everyone, really hard.. My first run was in Normal Mode, and to be honest, it kinda disappointed me, compared to Reborn, Gym Battles were way too easy, Boss Battle too, especially Geara (Greninja solo'ed Giratina, and most of his team) nad without doubt, the most powerful Rift Pokemon I've faced was Gardevoir, it really cheesed me. But this doesn't change the fact that I enjoy Rejuvenation. Due to this I attempted to do a run on Intense Mode, and indeed, is INTENSE, the gap between Normal and Intese is too much, compared to Reborn, Intense Rejuvenation is a bit harder, while Reborn, has a standard mode which get harder the more you proceed with the story. Plus, I just can't imagine the Gauntlet Battle (6vs30) on such Intense Mode in Reborn, I barely made it to clear it by cheesing some items and somes focus sash...

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Hi, I help with Rejuvenation in general and notably for this case, buffed up intense mode in the past two versions.

 

As people've said, it's not for everyone. It's for those who think themselves good enough, or those who want to test themselves on a repeat playthrough. Furthermore some statements in the OP really make me doubt you know what you're talking about or how essentials(the rmxp based engine the game runs on) as a system works;

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With EV trained mons as early as gym 3 and banned moves/item combos on some mons making the fights less about strategy and more about how to cheese them out.

EVs aren't ever set until Crawli~Angie outside of Valarie's ace Primarina. Furthermore Essentials automatically gives evs in each stat if they aren't set by the following formula; [Level x 1.5 up until 85 evs]. Furthermore I'd really like to see the "banned moves/item combos" you're talking about since I really don't get that? As for the AI seeing items, that's a function in Reborn too and that's set to emulate the competitive scene where players can quickly guess what items or sets the opponents have. Take that up with them in that regard.

 

Quote

Like how I was stuck in a loop against Madelis at Blacksteeple because when you faint and go back to your room the game forces you back into a fight you clearly aren't prepared for.

I don't quite understand how that Madelis fight was giving you trouble when we very much so held back to prevent progress. Either way there's a healing station and PC right outside of that place with some wild pokemon you can catch and grind on.

 

I also found your comment about ev training funny because I test and beat everything on intense without ev training at all.

 

There weren't any real other points brought up that were worth mentioning, that hadn't already been expressly taken apart by other people so I'll move onto something else.

 

1 hour ago, Destrakon said:

I played my second run in Rejuvenation on Intense Mode, and indeed, agreeding with most of the people, it is not made for everyone, really hard.. My first run was in Normal Mode, and to be honest, it kinda disappointed me, compared to Reborn, Gym Battles were way too easy, Boss Battle too, especially Geara (Greninja solo'ed Giratina, and most of his team) nad without doubt, the most powerful Rift Pokemon I've faced was Gardevoir, it really cheesed me. But this doesn't change the fact that I enjoy Rejuvenation. Due to this I attempted to do a run on Intense Mode, and indeed, is INTENSE, the gap between Normal and Intese is too much, compared to Reborn, Intense Rejuvenation is a bit harder, while Reborn, has a standard mode which get harder the more you proceed with the story. Plus, I just can't imagine the Gauntlet Battle (6vs30) on such Intense Mode in Reborn, I barely made it to clear it by cheesing some items and somes focus sash...

I kinda don't agree with saying it's that much easier than Reborn? In a sense since you're used to the style of the game one could adequately prepare before hand but it's mostly designed to go along the same type of curve. Quite interested in hearing more in this regard.

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37 minutes ago, not Azery said:

Hi, I help with Rejuvenation in general and notably for this case, buffed up intense mode in the past two versions.

 

As people've said, it's not for everyone. It's for those who think themselves good enough, or those who want to test themselves on a repeat playthrough. Furthermore some statements in the OP really make me doubt you know what you're talking about or how essentials as a system works;

EVs aren't ever set until Crawli~Angie outside of Valarie's ace Primarina. Furthermore Essentials automatically gives evs if they aren't set by the following formula; [Level x 1.5 up until 85 evs]. Furthermore I'd really like to see the "banned moves/item combos" you're talking about since I really don't get that? As for the AI seeing items, that's a function in Reborn too and that's set to emulate the competitive scene where players can quickly guess what items or sets the opponents have. Take that up with them in that regard.

 

I don't quite understand how that Madelis fight was giving you trouble when we very much so held back to prevent progress. Either way there's a healing station and PC right outside of that place with some wild pokemon you can catch and grind on.

 

There weren't any real other points brought up that were worth mentioning, that hadn't already been expressly taken apart by other people so I'll move onto something else.

 

I kinda don't agree with saying it's that much easier than Reborn? In a sense since you're used to the style of the game one could adequately prepare before hand but it's mostly designed to go along the same type of curve. Quite interested in hearing more in this regard.

I meant to say that Normal Mode is easier to my opinion, than Reborn standard. Indeed Intense is harder.

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Just now, Destrakon said:

I meant to say that Normal Mode is easier to my opinion, than Reborn standard. Indeed Intense is harder.

Yes I acknowledged that xp. But we all have our different experiences I suppose.

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43 minutes ago, not Azery said:

Hi, I help with Rejuvenation in general and notably for this case, buffed up intense mode in the past two versions.

 

Thank you for confirming that there are buffs.  I only had my experiences starting with V9 Intense to go by when comparing it Reborn at the start of the thread, so I would likely have a different time if I started a new game on Intense now.

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I also disagree that it isn’t “bad” per se. Intense mode really really really really really is ridiculously hard but it is manageable. I manage to went through all of it by using the same exact team (A-Muk, Lanturn, Talonflame and Medicham included). So you don’t have to swap mons here and there. With like, 97402739237837 resets you can get through battles just fine. The ones that I really had a hard time with were double battles. Those were straight up torture.

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Yeah, i've been playing Intense for a few versions, and singles are not so bad at all, however Double battles can be an absolute torture and a Resetfest. They are clearly designed for one and one only battle, while your team clearly was prepared for a variety of situations, not for VGC doubles. 

One of the hardest walls i see on the forums is usually Spirit Keta, because he's got fully evolved team at level 25, while you cant really counter him with much, and pokemon variety is still not the best. 

I kinda wish Doubles would be more tolerable, but other than them i feel like Intense mode is exactly that - intense, and it is in much better place now. 

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7 hours ago, not Azery said:

I don't quite understand how that Madelis fight was giving you trouble when we very much so held back to prevent progress. Either way there's a healing station and PC right outside of that place with some wild pokemon you can catch and grind on.

Since I said I'd agree with 'em on that, they sounded like you immediately have to rebattle after losing without the chance to go anywhere.
I believed because shit can happen, it's what you'd be used to from most games ever, but Rejuv takes really good care of mostly letting the player roam even in what could be considered unconventional situations (can leave the Chrysalis Mansion at some point and return, for instance).

What I actually had in mind when 'agreeing' was that, if you save inside the cave while destroying the boxes/pipes with Braixen, it won't let you leave the cave anymore (so I had to go back a save state manually).
But I see how that is just semantics, since you're meant to lose-respawn-change stuff up and not lose-reload-change stuff up. 😛

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I ranted a lot I guess and maybe there were too harsh of criticisms but my problem with intense isn't that its hard its that sometimes its just unfair. A hard fighting game isn't one with a damage sponge npc or frame perfect movements (since no training can emulate either of those) a hard fighting game would be one were using certain moves put you in a bad spot that the computer is trained to recognize. A hard shooting game isn't one where the enemy has one shot weapons and there is no cover anywhere, its one where enemy placement isn't easy to funnel and forces you to be smart with ammo. A hard rpg shouldn't be highly leveled opponents outside a reachable range with items that make them unbeatable in certain scenarios, it should be one where proper preparation and clever use of what you have can change the tide of battle. There are times in rejuv where I don't feel the latter. With its higher level enemies and items that make certain scenarios more that difficult. I've been able to beat each challenge so far but not because of preparation every time but in spite of just janking AI. Basically I don't feel rewarded for all of my victories. Some of them yeah because I went back and trained a few new mons and checked serebii to see what mons could do/learn what. Like both Keta fights. Those battles were hard and I lost quite a few times but each loss I could blame myself for making mistakes and not the computer for being too high for that time. And certain story beats like the madelis fight and valerie fight you are locked in certain areas. (I didn't know about the side-save states where I can go back, would of helped to be able to reach my box and thats on me). Again I like rejuv and on the normal mode the fights were generally ranging fair-easy but on intense mode just dialing up power doesn't make it better.

 

I saw someone mention something about how its not fair the AI only has the one chance to beat you.... its an AI... I don't think it cares or gets salty about the loss.

 

Also to the person who says you should be able to dial down the difficulty. I don't like that idea so much either. If playing on normal or easy I can understand an instant difficulty change but intense is meant to be the unforgiving mode so if you play it then you should be locked into it. 

 

Lastly I can only complain so much since developing a perfect AI to combat literally every type of player is probably.....definitely impossible so while I have difficulty due to my playstyle of keeping my starter and second mon on every team regardless of type disadvantage, other people don't have that problem. (Still using Roselia since shiny stone isn't available until gym 6 and he's gonna help win) I know people work hard at making it and my hope isn't to antagonize so I apologize and take back my bad statement. But I do hope that while my execution could have been better that my message about "true" difficulty helps in some way for any type of development. I want a truly hard game sometimes and I want to be pushed but I don't want to win because of luck, I want to win because I genuinely earned the win.

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42 minutes ago, Mionee said:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvLVu3yu-0q0uewKyvHn0VRT6V86jZ7s7

 

just leaving that here, dont think intense is too difficult or unfair in any way no, v11 AI is extremely predictable if anything, maybe too predictable even

 

I’m speechless how did you even......... where can I apply for apprenticeship?

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2 hours ago, Damage said:

I saw someone mention something about how its not fair the AI only has the one chance to beat you.... its an AI... I don't think it cares or gets salty about the loss.

yeah you completely missed the point of that. I don't even know how one could think it was meant this way.

so lemme esplain.
the AI is considerably worse than a human, that's just a fact and can't be changed, yet you complain about the AI being given "overpowered tools" like certain items or moves early in the game.
and the opposing mons aren't even overleveled most of the time, and if so, maybe like 2 levels, so whatever.

all this does is that when you're trying to go in for a brawl, you'll be leaving ready for hospital.
the AI won't suddenly become a miracle opponent, but you very likely still need to use some sense-making switching that - from what little I have seen of PvP - is standard procedure in higher level play anyway.
the difference is that you can try and alter your setup as much as you have to until you solve the puzzle.

it's a singleplayer game after all, that's how they work, it's the same principle as learning movements and attacks of a boss in 3d fantasy games.
once you figure those out and learn to execute the counter movements, it's just over.
and Pokémon as a game-framework just has so many more limitations.

if you don't feel accomplishment winning against the AI that was given superior tools (Intense mode), how do you feel it against the AI that was given worse tools (Normal mode)?
it's not a more reasonable opponent that capitalizes on mistakes all of a sudden, they'll both punish them the same way, but on Normal difficulty it can't even punish them as hard.
so I don't get that notion. or rather, I get it, but there is no logic to it -
since you stress that point so much, it doesn't make any sense to feel better about winning against weaker opposition.

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@CrossImpactSo I'd like to start with I personally like the harder mode more than standard because it does get challenging albeit in my opinion sometimes too much so. Second saying there is no logic to an opinionated statement defeats the purpose of a conversation. I'm not here to win an argument just here to talk about thoughts on a particular aspect of the game. If you don't like or agree with it fine, expand upon that as you have but denouncing it entirely because I feel a certain way makes this talk considerably less enjoyable. Lastly I have stated that I understand the limits and as someone who has never designed a game I am far from in a position to call the design bad and have not only apologized but retracted the statement.  I also have literally no control how I feel over victory or defeat. If I felt pushed a certain way I feel satisfied if I don't then I wont.

 

@Mionee Not gonna lie watched a few of the vids and felt real life mad that I couldn't beat what a team of low tier unevolved mons could sweep. That said being easy for someone with a vast understanding doesn't exactly make something easy or fair. If I play basketball against a team of kids with number advantage and a coach, wouldn't change the fact that my age and experience flat out remove any factor of skill they might have. And Lebron James coming in and washing me wouldn't change the original scenario. Cool vids though and I can say (as I have) the game obviously isn't unbeatable even with low level or underpowered moves. In fact both reborn and Rejuv taught me the benefits of UU/PU mons and why they shouldn't be excluded.

 

To cap, sometimes the game requires you to just git gud but to say there are no AI flaws, I feel doesn't help anyone. It isn't constructive to creators that feel or need to improve upon them and doesn't allow for the discussion among players that the same creators probably listen to in order to improve.

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