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Saki and Venam fight V3


Sceptilespy

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Yeah, the last time I attempted to modify this fight it ended in Genesect for Saki and Nihelego for Venam. Oof. In any case. I'm going to try and not break the fight this time while making it harder. Also, since Melia's team sucks, the fight is going to be likely a 10/12v6. Unfortunate, but what can you do. 

 

Saki's 1st mon 

Metagross w/ life orb-

Meteor Mash

Ice Punch

Zen Headbutt

Earthquake 

 

Venam's 1st mon

Crobat w/ sitrus berry-

Nasty Plot

Sludge Bomb 

Heat Wave

Air Slash

 

Nothing much here. Crobat so Metagross doesn't just earthquake kill. As well as me thinking a little team change fits Venam. Inb4 "hurr durr dey not supposed to wok together". That doesn't mean they're supposed to kill each other off. Why even have a battle then. Story? I guess so, but the battle is lame and for a high ranking leader like Saki, I expect a little bit better. 

 

Saki's 2nd mon 

Scizor w/ muscle band- 

Swords Dance

Bullet Punch

Bug Bite

Knock Off

 

Venam's 2nd mon 

Tentecruel w/ black sludge- 

Muddy Water

Sludge Wave

Dazzling Gleam

Ice Beam 

 

Lil bit of weakness covering. Nice new mons. I prefer Scizor to aggron/assklang. Tentecruel helps everyone.  

 

Saki's 3rd mon

Mawile w/ Mawilite- 

Play Rough

Rock Slide

Iron Head

Thunder Punch 

 

Venam's 3rd mon-

Seviper w/ expert Belt- 

Sludge Wave 

Flamethrower

Giga Drain

Dark Pulse

 

Aces. Saki isn't a bitch so she gets Mega Mawile. Venam's Seviper becomes a threat overall. 

 

Not too unreasonable seeing as you have a massive Pokemon advantage. Devs would decide levels. I just made this up as a quick thingy. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Let me just make a single comment before saying anything else:

 

You have a total of 2 status moves and all of the mons you gave them are HO minus Tentacruel who ironically only has offensive attacks.

 

I honestly do not get what you are trying to accomplish here. Like I really don't as you have taken 0 bits of any feedback I've said before bar the legendary comment and this is pretty much just a repeat of the last two fights. If it's for fun, fine, but why make the comment devs should choose the levels. It just sounds like you just made half of a fight and expect good feedback from it or devs to use your ideas.

 

Now since I can give feedback, I can say that this team has awful synergy. Let's just start with Metagross. Metagross has solid stats with its weakest stat with is speed. Get a will-o-wisp on it and the player pretty much has won the battle since Melia and you should be able to take down Venam very easily as her only threat is Crobat. Or you can take down Crobat and trick Metagross into OHKOing its partner with EQ. Giving them bad synergy would be a good detail due to the story, but you wanted it to be hard and not look hard.

 

If you wanted a good bad synergy team: Magnezone and Tentacruel lead (they damage each other), Forretress and Nidoking (with EQ), and Mawile and Seviper. Who cares if it's easy. You'd just see how pissed they'd be at each other at the end as they end up killing each other.

 

Crobat is way too frail in doubles to be covering for someone. You'd be better off with Weezing at that point. Fills the same roll, has tanky stats, and carries Will-o-wisp to shut down now guts fighting types. Scizor is the worst member though. Fire types will shut it down instantly. Will-o-wisp shuts down Metagross and certainly shuts down this one as well. Hell, Will-O-Wisp shuts down Mega Mawile who has no swords dance nor Sucker punch both of which are staples on it. So one single tactic shuts down Saki completely and in a battle like this, that's a very bad thing to do.

 

Now let's talk about Venam. Seviper is an awful Pokemon so there's not much you can do about that. Believe me, I've tried making it good. It also makes 0 sense why you'd run Black Sludge over Assault Vest on Tentacruel as you didn't even give it any status moves. It doesn't have anyone to work with to stall meaning it's gonna die faster so...may as well make it as tanky as possible so it can at least live a round.

 

That's all and good, but we're actually missing the elephant in the room: Melia. You're relying on the difficulty to be difficult so long as Melia is bad. I hated the weak partner concept in Reborn to the point I buffed many of them and difficulty was overall better (and you could rely on your partner rather than them being a hindrance). Why not make Melia stronger so that you can make Saki and Venam use more Pokemon and try more tactics rather than a mere "Oh Melia has to suck so HO is the best way to fill that role." And the other than is that this is theory. My own personal belief is that theory is worthless without testing and experience. So why not plug it into the game and test it instead of trying to get feedback (I'm not going to put this into a game and do that for you though). 3 revisions is about the minimum I do for fights (I've done 20 for some...yes 20).

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14 hours ago, Sceptilespy said:

Crobat so Metagross doesn't just earthquake kill. As well as me thinking a little team change fits Venam. Inb4 "hurr durr dey not supposed to wok together". That doesn't mean they're supposed to kill each other off. Why even have a battle then.

 

24 minutes ago, Commander said:

If you wanted a good bad synergy team: Magnezone and Tentacruel lead (they damage each other), Forretress and Nidoking (with EQ), and Mawile and Seviper. Who cares if it's easy. You'd just see how pissed they'd be at each other at the end as they end up killing each other.

what did he say there tho :thinking:

 

now, for the things:

 

Scizor IS the worst member here, simply because having the essentials AI use swords dance in doubles is the perfect storm. Imo replace it with empoleon, or something else that can take on fire-types. Saki is a high ranking leader, so she would probably skip on the scizor here. Seviper can work, provided its level is high enough, but I'd consider pairing it with Tailwind. So make meta and brobat the 2nd mons, and give brobat a physical set with tailwind, since the rest of venam's team is special already. Alternatively to all of this, just give sciz tailwind with a sash, because memes. Imo give tenta lo too, just to give it some of the damage it needs. Mega maw and seviper can actually be gods in tailwind, if everything else wore things down. Tailwind doesn't work for bat or tenta tho, so it's not that much of a synergy. Not to mention this all falls apart when both mons are not taken out simultaneously.

 

That's it so far tbh. Hyper offense is gucci here because 1. ai is a binch, and 2. doubles are bound to be offensive. It's pretty balanced overall, and it makes sense, especially with the aces. Not gunna say much else here, just wanted to leave my feedback. Theorymonning is fun yanno, even if it's just for the sake of the theory. And it looks like your samples are better, since no legendaries this time. It's sure there are already plenty of those in the game, rIGHT JAN!? HUH!? i'd just kick all these fuckin legendaries to the curb. And Melia.

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7 hours ago, Commander said:

Let me just make a single comment before saying anything else:

 

You have a total of 2 status moves and all of the mons you gave them are HO minus Tentacruel who ironically only has offensive attacks.

 

I honestly do not get what you are trying to accomplish here. Like I really don't as you have taken 0 bits of any feedback I've said before bar the legendary comment and this is pretty much just a repeat of the last two fights. If it's for fun, fine, but why make the comment devs should choose the levels. It just sounds like you just made half of a fight and expect good feedback from it or devs to use your ideas.

 

Now since I can give feedback, I can say that this team has awful synergy. Let's just start with Metagross. Metagross has solid stats with its weakest stat with is speed. Get a will-o-wisp on it and the player pretty much has won the battle since Melia and you should be able to take down Venam very easily as her only threat is Crobat. Or you can take down Crobat and trick Metagross into OHKOing its partner with EQ. Giving them bad synergy would be a good detail due to the story, but you wanted it to be hard and not look hard.

 

If you wanted a good bad synergy team: Magnezone and Tentacruel lead (they damage each other), Forretress and Nidoking (with EQ), and Mawile and Seviper. Who cares if it's easy. You'd just see how pissed they'd be at each other at the end as they end up killing each other.

 

Crobat is way too frail in doubles to be covering for someone. You'd be better off with Weezing at that point. Fills the same roll, has tanky stats, and carries Will-o-wisp to shut down now guts fighting types. Scizor is the worst member though. Fire types will shut it down instantly. Will-o-wisp shuts down Metagross and certainly shuts down this one as well. Hell, Will-O-Wisp shuts down Mega Mawile who has no swords dance nor Sucker punch both of which are staples on it. So one single tactic shuts down Saki completely and in a battle like this, that's a very bad thing to do.

 

Now let's talk about Venam. Seviper is an awful Pokemon so there's not much you can do about that. Believe me, I've tried making it good. It also makes 0 sense why you'd run Black Sludge over Assault Vest on Tentacruel as you didn't even give it any status moves. It doesn't have anyone to work with to stall meaning it's gonna die faster so...may as well make it as tanky as possible so it can at least live a round.

 

That's all and good, but we're actually missing the elephant in the room: Melia. You're relying on the difficulty to be difficult so long as Melia is bad. I hated the weak partner concept in Reborn to the point I buffed many of them and difficulty was overall better (and you could rely on your partner rather than them being a hindrance). Why not make Melia stronger so that you can make Saki and Venam use more Pokemon and try more tactics rather than a mere "Oh Melia has to suck so HO is the best way to fill that role." And the other than is that this is theory. My own personal belief is that theory is worthless without testing and experience. So why not plug it into the game and test it instead of trying to get feedback (I'm not going to put this into a game and do that for you though). 3 revisions is about the minimum I do for fights (I've done 20 for some...yes 20).

Spoiler

 

"I honestly do not get what you are trying to accomplish here. Like I really don't as you have taken 0 bits of any feedback I've said before bar the legendary comment and this is pretty much just a repeat of the last two fights. If it's for fun, fine, but why make the comment devs should choose the levels. It just sounds like you just made half of a fight and expect good feedback from it or devs to use your ideas."

 

I made this for fun. So if it ever got implemented, devs would choose levels, I didn't care that much since I made this off of a whim. Also, I don't have to take feedback from you. In fact, quite frankly, I've never really liked reading your comments, but I'll elaborate on that further. ALSO, how have I made half a fight when levels are literally the only thing im missing. Please don't think I'm making these to be implemented ingame. There are infinitely better devs working on game balance right now so I know I'm not needed.  Anyway, moving on.

 

"you have a total of 2 status moves and all of the mons you gave them are HO minus Tentacruel who ironically only has offensive attacks."

How many status moves do I need on leaders who are impulsive and rush into things since you seem to care so much about the story. 

 

"if you wanted a good bad synergy team: Magnezone and Tentacruel lead (they damage each other), Forretress and Nidoking (with EQ), and Mawile and Seviper. Who cares if it's easy. You'd just see how pissed they'd be at each other at the end as they end up killing each other."

I clearly didn't care about story here. I just wanted to make them hard. 

 

"Crobat is way too frail in doubles to be covering for someone. You'd be better off with Weezing at that point. Fills the same roll, has tanky stats, and carries Will-o-wisp to shut down now guts fighting types. Scizor is the worst member though. Fire types will shut it down instantly. Will-o-wisp shuts down Metagross and certainly shuts down this one as well. Hell, Will-O-Wisp shuts down Mega Mawile who has no swords dance nor Sucker punch both of which are staples on it. So one single tactic shuts down Saki completely and in a battle like this, that's a very bad thing to do."

 

Unless players lead with a mon that has stone edge or tbolt, I seriously doubt crobat is dying in one hit. 85/80/80 defenses aren't terrible for what is supposed to deal tons of damage. "Scizor is the worst member here though. Fire types will shut it down instantly". For one, it helped with people just spamming earthquake and winning. Two, I guess you didn't notice Tentecruel on the Venam's team specifically for Saki's fire weakness. Sciz also covers for Venam's fire weakness. Idk why "a super effective move shuts this mon down instantly" is your argument here. Also, you don't get will-o-wisp at this point. Even though judging from your playthrough you haven't even got up to here so I'm not surprised you don't know this. I also didn't give Mawile Sucker Punch so players can't abuse AI. 

 

"If you wanted a good bad synergy team: Magnezone and Tentacruel lead (they damage each other), Forretress and Nidoking (with EQ), and Mawile and Seviper. Who cares if it's easy. You'd just see how pissed they'd be at each other at the end as they end up killing each other."

 

No. I made the battle for the purpose of being hard, so why would you ask who cares if it's hard? Besides, bulky pokemon in doubles aren't very good in my opinion. Especially shit like forrestress which is better not seriously used by AI. 

 

Now let's talk about Venam. Seviper is an awful Pokemon so there's not much you can do about that. Believe me, I've tried making it good. It also makes 0 sense why you'd run Black Sludge over Assault Vest on Tentacruel as you didn't even give it any status moves. It doesn't have anyone to work with to stall meaning it's gonna die faster so...may as well make it as tanky as possible so it can at least live a round."That's all and good, but we're actually missing the elephant in the room: Melia. You're relying on the difficulty to be difficult so long as Melia is bad. I hated the weakpartner concept in Reborn to the point I buffed many of them and difficulty was overall better (and you could rely on your partner rather than them being a hindrance). Why not make Melia stronger so that you can make Saki and Venam use more Pokemon and try more tactics rather than a mere "Oh Melia has to suck so HO is the best way to fill that role." And the other than is that this is theory. My own personal belief is that theory is worthless without testing and experience. So why not plug it into the game and test it instead of trying to get feedback (I'm not going to put this into a game and do that for you though). 3 revisions is about the minimum I do for fights (I've done 20 for some...yes 20)."

 

"So why not plug it into the game and test it instead of trying to get feedback". Ok. So imply I'm making this purely for feedback instead of for fun. Nice. Also, I have no experience with RPG Maker nor do I have the PBS files for the game. That's one of the reasons why I make these.  "Why not make Melia stronger?" This entire comment you've trashed my fight and you seriously suggest making Melia stronger? No. 

 

"Now let's talk about Venam. Seviper is an awful Pokemon so there's not much you can do about that. Believe me, I've tried making it good. It also makes 0 sense why you'd run Black Sludge over Assault Vest on Tentacruel as you didn't even give it any status moves. It doesn't have anyone to work with to stall meaning it's gonna die faster so...may as well make it as tanky as possible so it can at least live a round."

 

Seviper is her Ace. It's nigh-mandatory that she have it. Black sludge for recovery on tenta. It's offensive anyway, so it's running spA. 

 

"Giving them bad synergy would be a good detail due to the story, but you wanted it to be hard and not look hard."

"but you wanted it to be hard and not look hard." Yes, that's kind of the point. 

 

 

If there's one thing I hate doing, it's getting salty when something doesn't go my way but, if this is your definition of constructive criticism, it's an awfully twisted one. I appreciate the suggestions and the fact you tried to help, but do you ever take into account that unlike you, I don't spend hours of my life working on a Reborn mod, so of course I won't be as good at teambuilding. Consider that this was for fun, point out some mistakes and be on your way before you type passive aggresive comments like this. If you didn't mean for it to be passive aggressive, then it's my fault for assuming so, but you are taking this WAAAAY to seriously. If my teams bring this much out of you, don't read my comments. Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: It's good enough. It doesn't have to be perfect and it's undoubtedly a buff from the first fight which is what I'm aiming for. But I seriously suggest you read the spoiler for more in depth info. As well as my own personal comments. Remember, I did this just for fun. I wasn't calcing shit and I certainly won't fuck around with RPG maker and my save file n shit just to test a team that probably won't get put in anyway. These are for fun and so is theorymonning. I think you're taking it a bit too seriously, but thanks for the imput regardless. No offense in spoiler btw. 

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6 hours ago, Hycrox said:

 

what did he say there tho :thinking:

 

now, for the things:

 

Scizor IS the worst member here, simply because having the essentials AI use swords dance in doubles is the perfect storm. Imo replace it with empoleon, or something else that can take on fire-types. Saki is a high ranking leader, so she would probably skip on the scizor here. Seviper can work, provided its level is high enough, but I'd consider pairing it with Tailwind. So make meta and brobat the 2nd mons, and give brobat a physical set with tailwind, since the rest of venam's team is special already. Alternatively to all of this, just give sciz tailwind with a sash, because memes. Imo give tenta lo too, just to give it some of the damage it needs. Mega maw and seviper can actually be gods in tailwind, if everything else wore things down. Tailwind doesn't work for bat or tenta tho, so it's not that much of a synergy. Not to mention this all falls apart when both mons are not taken out simultaneously.

 

That's it so far tbh. Hyper offense is gucci here because 1. ai is a binch, and 2. doubles are bound to be offensive. It's pretty balanced overall, and it makes sense, especially with the aces. Not gunna say much else here, just wanted to leave my feedback. Theorymonning is fun yanno, even if it's just for the sake of the theory. And it looks like your samples are better, since no legendaries this time. It's sure there are already plenty of those in the game, rIGHT JAN!? HUH!? i'd just kick all these fuckin legendaries to the curb. And Melia.

I don't think Scizor is the worst member since covers psychic weakness for venam and dark weakness for metagross, but other then that, I appreciate this. 

"Theorymonning is fun yanno, even if it's just for the sake of the theory. And it looks like your samples are better, since no legendaries this time. It's sure there are already plenty of those in the game, rIGHT JAN!? HUH!? i'd just kick all these fuckin legendaries to the curb. And Melia." 

I made the legendaries for a dumb challenge, but have sense realized it wasn't funny, and it really was just dumb. I tried to think about team balance more and the things You get until there. The battle isn't overly hard but it's definitely been buffed. As long as I get better. 

But yeah, I'm not seriously suggesting these teams be taken, but if they are then woohoo. 

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