Saphira.

[Sceptilespy]

Since someone made a topic on how much of a threat Amaria could be. I figure I can make a thread on Saphira.

First of all, this field: 

Spoiler

 

"If you wish to slay a dragon..."

Dragon type attacks increase in base power x2

Fire type attacks increase in base power x1.5

Water and Ice type attacks decrease in base power x0.5

Activates Marvel Scale

Multiscale additionally annulls user's Dragon type's weaknesses at all times

These moves increase in base power x2 and apply additional Fire type damage:

Smack Down

Thousand Arrow

These moves increase in base power x2:

Pay Day

Dragon Ascent

These moves increase in base power x1.5:

Lava Plume

Magma Storm

Mega Kick

Magma Storm deals 1/6 Max HP damage per turn (from 1/8)

Pokemon with the following abilities have their defenses boosted on switch-in:

Magma Armor

Magma Armor additionally protects from Fire Attacks

The stat-changing effect of these moves is amplified:

Noble Roar

Dragon Dance

These moves transform this field into a Cave after two uses:

Surf

Muddy Water

These moves transform this field into a Cave Field:

Glaciate

Nature Power becomes Dragon Pulse

Camouflage changes the user's type to Dragon

Secret Power may burn

 

So let me get this straight. Dragon type moves' damage is doubled. If that doesn't sound bad enough, then know that all ice types moves' damage are basically cut in half. Oh, and if a Dragon Type Pokemon has multiscale, they flat out lose all of their weaknesses. Woah. 

So let's address the elephant in the room. Or the dragonite. Yeah, Dragonite is flat out broken in this field. A good moveset for this thing is something like: Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, Fire Punch, 4th move. (Maybe thunder punch, iron head, Earthquake, etc. It doesn't need much more then the moves mentioned.)

So let's try and deduce what Saphira's team will be. 

We already know about Dragonite. But maybe Turtonator will be next? Both of it's types are boosted on the field, and it can run Assault vest or air balloon for defensive purposes. I think a good moveset is something like Flamethrower, Dragon Pulse, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast? Shell Trap is also a possibility, but that just makes coming in with a physical attacker and abusing AI easier. The only problem with Turtonator, is that it's damage output is much less then desired for that point in the game. 

The Next Pokemon could be something like Kommo-o. It can run Clangorous Soulblaze for a Zmove slot and proceed to completely destroy anything and everything. A Ddance set with Dclaw, Iron head, and Sky Uppercut is also possible. But at the end of the day, this pokemon would just secure Ice's uselessness on this field. And before anyone mentions changing the field. 

The Next Pokemon is probably Tyrantrum. It loves this field because even if the field changes, it's op head smash just gets STRONGER. As it turns into a cave field. Other then that, Tyrantrum is just a strong attacker. Something like Ddance, Head smash, Iron Head/Earthquake, Dragon claw/Outrage. 

I think the pokemon after that would be Assault vest Goodra. I just think that pokemon is basically mandatory on Dragon monos. 

And Finally, the mega. Honestly. I can't decide between Mega Charizard, Mega Garchomp, or Mega Salamence. It probably won't be mega salamence due to already having a dragonite, so it's between Zard X and Chomp. I'll leave that up to you guys. 

 

And after all that, I think the team is something like this, but not in this order: Dragonite, Turtonator, Tyrantrum, Kommo-o, Goodra, Zard X/Mega Chomp 

Now here are some calcs on some common Pokemon to really spice it up. 

Dragonite: 

Spoiler

 

+1 252 Atk Expert Belt Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross: 240-283 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now this is assuming a few things. That the dragonite didn't set up, even though it will basically ALWAYS have a chance to set up. AND that the Metagross has 31 IVS in defense. As well as not assuming the Dragonite has a life orb or choice band or something. Also, field boost basically makes it +1 for anyone who was wondering. 

 

252 Atk Expert Belt Dragonite Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's with HARDCORE defensive investment on the Sylveon. Also, since Sylveon is never outspeeding Dragonite, if it switches in on an Iron head it's basically dead. 

 

252 Atk Expert Belt Dragonite Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 305-360 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Not sure why I'm surprised. But yeah, fairy types are useless. 

 

+2 252 Atk Expert Belt Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 336-396 (104 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This calc may not make a whole lot of sense but let me explain. Basically, the first dragonite is the one attacking with the field effects. And the Dragonite receiving the hit doesn't have the multiscale buff. So even though the attack is halved, it's still an ohko in case you were wondering. 

 

252+ Atk Expert Belt Dragonite Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golem: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Just thought that was cool.

 

And I'm sure you get the message. In any case, from the looks of it, Saphira is broken. I legitimately think this battle will make some people quit the game and that's because Amethyst is a master of teambuilding, whereas I made this up off the top of my head. 

 

Thoughts, comments, questions? I'm all ears. 

 

Also: +2 252+ SpA Kommo-o Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 201-237 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 

At this point, I'm convinced if it's not a fairy type, it's not a counter to this thing on this field lmao.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Sceptilespy

[Whitelight]

so i already posted this in the Amaria thread but if you are worried about getting swept hard by hard hitters, an ezpz way to win is to just take 6 aggrons with sturdy and metal burst and let the enemy kill itself. if they hit for 100, you dish out 200, if they hit for 200, you give 400 straight back to them. I mean that is aside from the other dirty things you could

come up with. We have a TON of tools this late in the game to be able to combat pretty much anything thrown at us. The key is that we have flexibility, whereas the gym leaders cant change their teams/playstyles. I have been handicapping myself for a while doing monoruns just to see how far i can take it and honestly as long as you get out of the early game

where you have extremely limited options, the rest should be a cakewalk as long as you take time to prepare correctly.

[iDunno]

My strategy will be to break the field first. Breed a Feebas with Haze, give it max investments in HP and Defense, and make sure the Milotic's ability is Marvel Scale (activated by the Field). Give it Surf and Dragon Pulse, and make it your lead. My bet is her lead is gonna be Kingdra, expecting the player to try to break the field at the beginning of the battle with Surf, which Kingdra resists 4x. Also, I'm sure most, if not all her 'mons are gonna have Dragon Dance, and the first thing they are going to do is go for DD to sweep your team (DD is boosted by the Field). Use Surf, Haze, and Surf again to break the field and reset her Pokemon's stats, and heal in-between if you have to. Then, after the field is turned into a Cavern, just use the rest of your team (with the usual Fairy, Ice and Dragon moves) to defeat her normally.

[Yagami]

While the field itself is OP,it doesn't mean it is impossible.
I saw this comment in an other topic:

Quote

tbh anything with access to Nature Power and decent stats will be OP vs. Saphira, the field turns it into Dragon Pulse which then gets doubled to 170BP by the field, and the only Dragons not weak to it are Mega Altaria and Dragonite (because field)

 

Let's not even forget,it doesn't even weaken fairy type.So trick room is still viable.Trick room alone destroyed Charlotte and the same can happen to Sapphira.

I can set up stealth rock,use bulldoze to lower speed and many other things that surely other users can think of.

If I am bored,I can still use ditto with imposter.Just a thought.I might even use king's shield with Aegislash since most of the dragon's are physical attackers.There's even disguise mimikyu.

[Timber Dragon]

Saphira is a fight I'm dreading. Lin too. That's Dragon-type trainers for ya.

 

The only strategy I'm planning is to see if I can get in two Surfs and get rid of the field, then do my best from there. The hard part is keeping my Surfer active long enough to do the job.

[Dream]

For now my options seem to be two: the first is use Ampharos to change the field and allow the rest of the team to do their job; the second is to throw down Dragonite with Aggron or another good rock type capable of collecting the shots of our favorite dragon, for the rest there is Noivern with Dragon Pulse: too fast and powerful

[Azeria]

2 step plan:

1. Get high level Noivern.

2. Sweep with insane speed + double power Dragon Pulse.

 

Doubting she'll be too tough tbh, but I could be wrong.

[Akzaar]

1 hour ago, Azeria said:

2 step plan:

1. Get high level Noivern.

2. Sweep with insane speed + double power Dragon Pulse.

 

Doubting she'll be too tough tbh, but I could be wrong.

Yepp, tried on online battles and Noivern is a killing machine in this field.

[guidy]

Prankster meowstic with Misty terrain (combined with a amplified rock or something that expands the durage of the terrain) and you're good to go
 

[Yorgy Borgy]

An oblivious Clefable should work well. Primarina would be a solid option too. You'd need to watch out for Poison Jabs and Metal Claw, but Clefable should be able to tank those.  

[dragonsbeat]

 The best way would be changing the field (misty terrain or 2 surfs would do the job ) there are a lot of ways to abuse the fields in this game or create ones and i heard in here every mon with a good speed and sp atk with nature power will destroy saphira plus that dragonite's ability can be useless against someone with mold breaker

So yeah actually no tania,hardy,amaria or saphira scarse me more than shelly or ciel those bitches are nightmare (no offense to the real life shelly and ciel plus cool names to go with your typing are the names real for all gym leaders because like shade for ghost titania for steel florinia for grass terra for ground are cool)

Edited November 30, 2017 by dragonsbeat

[Whitelight]

15 hours ago, Sceptilespy said:

In any case, from the looks of it, Saphira is broken. I legitimately think this battle will make some people quit the game and that's because Amethyst is a master of teambuilding, whereas I made this up off the top of my head. 

I mean I think this might be going a LITTLE bit overboard. anyone who stuck around through the previous gyms probably wont quit just based off of one leader, no matter how seemingly "broken" the fight is... I would be willing to bet 90% or higher of the people who would "rage quit" off a gym leader were gone by Corey, and the other 10% wouldn't have made it past Charlotte.

[BushyTheBushSpirit]

Dragonite on this field is a nightmare....... until you realize it gets absolutely demolished by Mold Breaker Haxorus

[Ainz Ooal Gown]

3 hours ago, BushyTheBushSpirit said:

Dragonite on this field is a nightmare....... until you realize it gets absolutely demolished by Mold Breaker Haxorus

O really? Hell yeah then! I can use my HMS Water ( Wailord ) to change the field with Surf, then use my Aggron to set Stealth Rock up, and finally i'll use my Swampert ( with Rock Slide + Avalanche egg move ) and Haxorus to rekt her real good.

 

But if she have water type moves on most of her mons, then i'll be screwed when my Aggron showed up :/

[Sceptilespy]

Please remember that that was a team I made up on the fly, there are many things that can happen. Please remember she can run noivern too, and fairy types and dragon types that are specially based are doing 30-40% to AV goodra max. That's WITH EV Training. and probably max IVS. AV Dragalge ~~and maybe naganadel somehow~~ are the answers to your special fairy and ice types. I predict her team will basically force you to switch in and out of special and physical based Pokemon. The problem with that is, if that keeps happening in the battle, She'll eventually hit you where it hurts. Well, unless you play on switch, in which case this battle is still tough, because you can switch. Oh. But what if it's a double battle? Then this fight gets a LOT harder since your switch mechanic is done and a Pokemon is getting ohko'd every round. 

 

I do agree with a lot of the claims I'm probably making this a bigger deal then it is, but at least we do know this fight won't be as easy as we might think. Considering there's no counter to Flash Cannon Clangorous Scales Kommo-o. Y'all are so lucky it doesn't get multiscale lol. 

 

 

Reborn is acting up for me so I'm just @ing people. 

 

@Azeria

So you're suggesting to fight fire with fire. But what if she fights fire fighting fire with fire and brings a Noivern of her own. STRANGE ISN'T IT? (if you get that reference be my friend)

 

@Whitelight

I mean, what type of final gym battle would it be if it didn't make at least 5% quit. 

 

@GS BALL

Charizard is one of my favorite Pokemon, but literally fighting fire with fire might not be too good. Charizard needs a chance to set up to sweep, and on this field, it's just not getting that chance. But in your defense, if it DOES get the boost, it's basically an insta-win if she doesn't have any scarfed pokemon. But THEN you could abuse the AI to use a move that's not very effective against zard and,... I need a Charizard. 

 

@Ainz Ooal Gown

True. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Sceptilespy

[BushyTheBushSpirit]

@Ainz Ooal Gown don't even change the field.  give Haxorus a Sash, use Dragon Dance (boosted by field), and proceed to OHKO everything she has that doesn't also have a Sash with field-boosted +2 Dragon Claw (Outrage shouldn't even be necessary, unless Ame decides to give her a freaking Dialga, which still has a 37.5% chance to get OHKOed by jolly +2 Claw even if it runs 252 HP/252+ Def).  plus, I think your Haxorus wants you to leave the field up as well

 

@Sceptilespy I'm guessing she probably will have a Noivern.  that thing outspeeds basically anything useful that isn't Weavile, and then gets x2 Draco Meteor, plus x1.5 Flamethrower for anyone using a non-Weavile ice-type.  but then again, she has a lot of options, so it's hard to say.  I don't think she'd use a Tyrantrum though — I think Hardy is very likely to have a Tyrantrum, and I don't think they would both use one (although it's certainly possible)

[kithas]

I began training my noivern frenetically after hearing about Multiscale Dragonite and then I just remembered: I have a Mold Breaker Excadrill. This can and will be fun. (Ha, not even I believe it)

[Paperblade]

Nature Power turns into Dragon Pulse. Dragon Pulse gets doubled by field.

 

252+ SpA Choice Specs Lilligant Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 196-232 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[AquaLaFlor]

My azumarill and kingdra are the only answers I have to saphira lol hope it'll be enough. Is dazzling gleam a tm we can get? I could teach it to the starmie I have

[Shad_]

4 minutes ago, AquaLaFlor said:

My azumarill and kingdra are the only answers I have to saphira lol hope it'll be enough. Is dazzling gleam a tm we can get? I could teach it to the starmie I have

It's the reward for beating Adrienn so yep

[Sceptilespy]

8 hours ago, GS BALL said:

You want a Charizard? I can give you a very special one, right away! I have bred 2 great ones, for becoming X and Y... I can give you either, or both! I like Charmander, but i like Charmander fans even more! Treat is on me!

I would actually love one. 

 

3 hours ago, AquaLaFlor said:

My azumarill and kingdra are the only answers I have to saphira lol hope it'll be enough. Is dazzling gleam a tm we can get? I could teach it to the starmie I have

Beat Adrienn and you'll get it.

 

12 hours ago, Paperblade said:

Nature Power turns into Dragon Pulse. Dragon Pulse gets doubled by field.

 

252+ SpA Choice Specs Lilligant Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 196-232 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

goddamn. how does lilligant take a sludgebomb/fire blast/flamethrower back tho. 

 

 

[Paperblade]

2 hours ago, Sceptilespy said:

goddamn. how does lilligant take a sludgebomb/fire blast/flamethrower back tho. 

0 SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lilligant: 180-212 (64 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Enough since Lilligant outspeeds and will OHKO any other dragon save Dragonite. Worth noting that most things that get Nature Power will do this kind of damage since 170BP super effective moves are pretty good

[HakuryuYukio]

Don't we have access to stealth rock ? Just set them up to break Dragonite's Multiscale and any potential Sashers.

Maybe with a Sturdy Mon like Gigalith,Golem or Donphan.

And it's been confirmed that we can catch Gible in E17. So you can break through most of if not her entire Team with your own Garchomp.

Just spam Dragon Claw and abuse the field. Also by the time we fight her, we'll probably be able to get more Dragons like Hydreigon,Salamence and our own Dragonite.

[Sceptilespy]

1 hour ago, HakuryuYukio said:

Don't we have access to stealth rock ? Just set them up to break Dragonite's Multiscale and any potential Sashers.

Maybe with a Sturdy Mon like Gigalith,Golem or Donphan.

And it's been confirmed that we can catch Gible in E17. So you can break through most of if not her entire Team with your own Garchomp.

Just spam Dragon Claw and abuse the field. Also by the time we fight her, we'll probably be able to get more Dragons like Hydreigon,Salamence and our own Dragonite.

Well we're definitely not getting Dragonite for obvious reasons by that time. Also, multiscale just flat out removes weaknesses on the pokemon, and it doesn't imply any different on the field chart thng. Stealth rock will only help for Turtonator/Noivern/Salamence then.

[HakuryuYukio]

28 minutes ago, Sceptilespy said:

Well we're definitely not getting Dragonite for obvious reasons by that time. Also, multiscale just flat out removes weaknesses on the pokemon, and it doesn't imply any different on the field chart thng. Stealth rock will only help for Turtonator/Noivern/Salamence then.

That may be true. But a Life Orb+STAB+Field boosted Dragon Claw or Outrage from a Garchomp probably still OHKO's Dragonite after Rocks. I mean it's not like the weaknesses make a complete 180 and turn into resistances

Edited December 2, 2017 by HakuryuYukio