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Lucifer

what are Rejuvenation's strongest and weakest points?

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in terms of:

 

- Story, specifically which arcs you  personally rank as the best and worst.

  - If you would like, include ranking for story aspects, such as the Garufa, Storm 9, dimensional rifts, etc

- Characters

- Map design: favorite and least favorite locations

- Side quests, both HC and non-HC

- And anything else you want to add!

 

just remember, rank your personal favorite and least favorite for each section!! reasoning behind your rankings are preferred :-)

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In general

best: map design. 

worst: balance. 

 

Story

best: From jungle till the mount valor arc. 

worst: The prison arc.

 

Characters

best: Karen.

worst: Melia. 

 

Map design

Best: Amethyst Cave

Worst: Whispy ruins.

 

Side quest

Best: the hidden library sidequests.

Worst:  The powerplant sidequest.

 

 

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@FairFamily I agree with you. The only change I would make would put Zetta as the best character, given the development he goes through. Karen is also great, though. It's just a personal preference.

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Everyone hates Melia, but I personally love her character. She is mistreated, misunderstood, and often acts emotionally rather than logically. But her dialogue isn't annoying (like Venam or Saki, for example). So I enjoy seeing how she is going to continue to progress and develop. And believe me, there are a lot of things I dislike about Rejuvenation, but Melia isn't one of them. 

And, go figure, I dislike Karen. She turns people into mind slaves, has unnatural powers, and acts like she's queen of the universe. 

 

I like the story in Goldenleaf Town. It could be more developed (the townspeople change their minds pretty quickly there), but it has strong elements of realism and intrigue (radio tower stuff has unsolved mysteries).

 

And I love Valor Mountain. Even though having it change from volcanic to snowy is absurd, it's implemented in such a great way as far as level design is concerned. So I actually enjoy it because it's unique. Mountain/Volcano areas can kind of be monotonous, so Valor stands out to me in a positive way.

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Story

Best: Sheridan Village (The mysteries of Keta)

Even with Aelita's meddling, I still never understood why Keta did the things he did, such as tributing his whole village to Team Xen or never listing Aelita as his bloodline descendant, but at the very least, attempting to find out carried me through the rather lengthy sequence of Sheridan Village

Worst: Blacksteeple (Aelita's torturing)

Probably a personal opinion, but I just didin't like how the overall response from the group to Aelita's torturing was: "Oh well, let's just poke holes on the sides faster, we were gonna hit something anyway but now we have a reason" Felt kinda passive for a life threatening condition.

 

Characters

Best: Tesla

Even though she's part of the Elite 8, she can find it within herself to raise orphans down on their luck. I found that kinda cool

Worst: Melia

I just can't help but to dislike how long she victimizes herself for the early game events and how entitled she seems to be growing over time because of them and the longer she's allowed to keep going like this, the more awkward that wake up call event is going to be, for everyone.

 

Map design

Best: Marble Mansion

Even before the visual upgrade, I always find myself fooling around in every room of this place trying to dig out whatever secrets I could find, giggle times for me :)

Worst: Amethyst Cave

The reason why I pick Amethyst Cave for this is because of how early game it is, yet it teases you with all these unreachable areas that require up to 7 badges to explore, meaning of course, that you will be coming back, several times, and from places as far as Kristilline town just to see what was on the other side of that rock climb path *coughaprilsubquestcough*

 

Side-quests

Best: West Gearen (House Sit!)

Described as a boring mission. Sakitron will show you why that's not the case.

Worst: Code : Feris

Or better known as the Nancy/chandelure sidequest. You take on the rift chandelure right after nancy's team of moonblasting fairies. No chance to heal. Annoying -3-...

 

In general

Best: Plot weight

Since Rejuvenation has 16 gym badges instead of the standard 8, it gives itself enough time to craft a well made story. Some characters may or may not be likable at first but well, we're still 5 badges + the league away. I'm sure we're all in for good surprises :)

Worst: Reward system vs Difficulty spikes ratio

This is a difficult topic, but one that should be addressed. Recent forum activity may have spoken of this before I did, but some sentiments are shared.

 

As you progress with the story, and with boss fights becoming harder and harder (bosses with access to late game, mold breaking movesets and mega evolutions) the feeling that you don't have as much as you would like to have to fight back with becomes more and more palpable.

You're hit with Earthquake as soon as the fight for the third badge rolls in, Ren's team bringing in egg moves into the plate right before the fight for the fourth badge, Erick/Flora-in introducing their access to mega evolutions at the ninth or tenth badge (possible Amber too on intense runs) and your biggest weapon in the fight against the puppeteers is...the taunt TM and only if you deviated from the train after you get strength from Krystal to pillage an abandoned manor in the middle of a forest.

 

What I mean to say is...why do rewards feel so underwhelming?

 

6 hours ago, Lucifer said:

- And anything else you want to add!

I'd like to add more rankings to everything in particular but that would take me more than I currently have available maybe another post if I can :P

 

 

 

 

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Story

 

Best: A Mother's Sacrifice, A [Player's] Purpose.

 

What? You mean, the Blacksteeple Castle is actually where you would argue the best part of the game is? Yes - because of the implications.

 

Despite being inspired by Reborn, Jan breaks from Ame's abrupt introduction of a family-less player character with no/yet-revealed background thrust into a situation beyond their control and opts to provide the character a mother who is easily recognizable, and then follow up by building said character into a progressed parent who sheds her meekness she had as a child in order to protect their kid. This mother ultimately isn't killed however, and is seen again as a slave for Team Xen that has the particular interest of some high ranking Xen officials. When the player finds themselves reunited with their mother, they are able to liberate her and make a serious effort in escape - in search of the unity and clean slate for their trip to Aevium. Unfortunately, an even higher force among Xen runs through Mom in a lunge for the player's life - and she dies in the only way that would be acceptable. She then reappears twice, as the guise of an imposter and as a shade, to prod the player on their quest through Aevium, never really letting them forget where they came from -and what they fight for. "Rejuvenation" provides -US- with more importance beyond that which we give ourselves than "Reborn" does, and it's one of the game's strongest story implications as a result. Jan wants us to know - "we matter too." Outside of our own spheres, the Blacksteeple Sacrifice also leads to positive character worth to NPCs such as Tesla, who searches for Nancy at the beginning of the game on your behalf and offers you a permanent residence and her motherly love after Nancy's death.

 

Worst: "Pokémon: High School" - Shofu

 

This segment of the game could alternatively be called "Finding Amber", and it's essentially supposed to be a light hearted nod to childish characters like Venam and flesh out her incident with "Dogars!" that Amber requests you find before she can even entertain the thought of battling you - which she never does. It instead turns into "Mommy Issues: the Movie" and ends with Team Xen swiping a dejected daughter away from her mother - the same person who in this mess of a goose chase offers YOU motherhood as well. This whole incident is completely contrived to set up the Valor Mountain arc even more than it already needed to be (because the player already needed to save Nim) and it ends up HARMING characters like Venam and Tesla (who serves as a petty antagonist that drives Amber's blood pressure up/damages Tesla's motherly ability she tries to offer you by having Amber undercut said motherhood viciously and then having Tesla fail to protect her daughter from Xen in negligence.) On top of this, Venam, Melia, and Saki are all aware Amber's childish behavior is roadblocking your need for a gym badge, and they all agree to sate Amber's lust for "humiliation" so the plot can progress. When VENAM is giving off "lets just get this over with" vibes - you are a terrible character and the plot isn't getting helped much.

 

Map Design

 

Best: Routes - literally all of them.

 

The most seamless reminder Rejuvenation is a Pokémon game is the beautiful routes Aevium has. Golden leaves, Flora's multi-colored trees, beaches, jungles, deserts, forests. Oh my goodness. Jan, you took the most boring areas in a Pokémon game and made them worth visiting. Kudos. Gearen and Grand Dream City deserve honorable mentions as massive metropolises. I love urban areas and I like seeing them in Pokémon games.

 

Worst: Any area with entrances and exits that don't seem very clear. Sometimes, it's hard to know where to go next, even within the boundaries of a specific room or map. The Church of Theolia seems pretty straightforward - but it's only an honorable mention because the Angie stained glass and the throwback to Virbank City's Pokémon Gym are great map areas within it.

 

Characters:

 

Best: Nancy (a.k.a. Mom)

 

This is probably a little biased, but if you have played through the Yancy/Curtis sidequest in Black2/White2 you might remember "Yancy" as the incognito young girl whose X-transceiver you find in Nimbasa City if you played as the male protagonist. Yancy is incredibly shy, probably due to having to keep her secret - that she's actually the female Unovan Idol - Nancy (which is where the name comes in) and that she can't be out too long because she's always busy with work.

 

Yancy's meekness in Black and White 2 contrasts very nicely with the quiet confidence exhibited by Rejuvenation Nancy. She's grown - she's got good Pokémon, and she's got tangible reasoning to fight and to do whatever she can for. She shows a degree of growth from between the two games you wouldn't pick up if you never played BW2 or if you never did the sidequest. If you played as Rosa instead of Nate in BW2, you get a similar character in Curtis, who is one of the BEST candidates for the role of the player's unknown father in Rejuvenation. Where Nancy's looks are clearly bestowed to Aevia, Aevis rocks a green highlighted dark set of clothing similar to Curtis' same exact fashion sense.

 

She clearly is "Nancy" in these games - as your mother is identified by various other NPCs as "the famous superstar" that was aboard the S.S. Oceana. It's another striking display of growth, as Nancy would call herself "Yancy" to hide that fact in plain sight beforehand.

 

Finally, she serves her purpose in the most heart-tugging way anyone in the story can - and your character stews on the fact for three days aboard Madame X's ship afterwards alone. Hallmark character in this game. Easily.

 

Worst: Melia

 

Melia is a horse long beaten at this point - and many of her detractors have solid points that I'm not going to repeat here - but I do think she will grow out of her "Mary Sue" nature in future episodes. She does have strong character points due to exposure being frequent, such as having a short temper and having a genuine relationship with Venam that supercedes being perfect and having powers. Venam's demise at the end of the current episode will put all of Melia's flaws on display as a formerly faultless character utterly broken - and thus - she just might become the tragic epic hero that people come to respect. On her most common "negatives" - she may have some hope at the end of the tunnel.

 

My issue with Melia, is that she's a spotlight hog. Xen seems to think Melia is more important than you are. Venam might think you are less important than Melia even though it's you who happens to save her life multiple times. Ren is pushed over the ledge of the player's good graces by the player, while Melia's being alive or not seems to matter in whether he stays with the "good guys". Melia is the person who ends up saving the slaves at Blacksteeple, while her late entrance costs the player their own mother's life and robs their family of the credit they probably deserved in part.

 

It's not unusual for a Pokémon game to feature another character as the protagonist -as Sun and Moon provide us with Lillie. However, Lillie is a weak character who needs the player character to prop them up until it's time for her to grow. Melia starts off without any faults, and while the player character may still prop her up, she doesn't have much to really break her early on. If it weren't for Melia seeing your value as an ally and constantly trying to get you the TMs and badges you need to help her, she would serve as a direct opponent fighting you for your title as the protagonist.

 

Side-quests:

 

Best so far: The Hidden Library series

 

This series features characters ranging from Karrina to Karen, and is one of the most visually pleasing group of Help Center quests in the game. It provides access to Elgym, the Ancient Book (which provides the player with more goodies) super early, the Good Rod, and some fantastic dialogue that establishes a character that may be really important down the road.

 

Worst: The Kecleon Shop Heist

 

This is a trap quest - and it's reward of a Blue Moon Ice Cream is significant to Rebornians because that Ice Cream is particularly rare and helpful in the players' experience. On top of that, it's a nice reference to Pokémon: Mystery Dungeon, in which stealing from Kecleon is usually not a good idea.

 

The reason this quest is bad is that it could cost the player some serious money if they try to do the quest early and fail repeatedly. It almost punishes players who acknowledge the Help Center's existence and try to complete every mission as they find it - which often results in the quest getting skipped. Kecleon also doesn't actually take the money they request you pay for it out of good faith - which actually feels really bad if the player tries to do the quest, and opts to wait until they can pay up. It's unfortunate.

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Story

GDC isn't complete yet, but it definitely has the potential to become my favorite part when it does. For already completed parts, I'd say Kugearen + West Gearen (basically everything from Amber to Erick). 

 

Least favorite would be Goldenleaf. It has some scenes I really like (especially in V9 with the gym becoming a theater), but also some things I didn't like. 

-Giratina's seemingly infinite stamina

-Us accepting capture instead of fighting back

-The townspeople before Narcissa's gym battle

Two of those are present in other parts of the game too: Mewtwo kept going even if you defeated it, and we let Gardevoir's cops push us around even though we knew they weren't acting under the law. Giratina's seemingly infinite stamina also made a return at Valor Mountain. But I feel like those issues stand out more in Goldenleaf, since it's a shorter arc. 

I kind of give Mewtwo a pass, because based on Madelis's comments and us still being a new trainer, I could see that as Mewtwo just needing to catch its breath and not actually being down for the count.

 

Maps

Favorites would be the beach areas of Terajuma: Terajuma Shore, Route 6, Aquamarine Cave, and Teila Resort. Those places look stunning. 

 

I don't really have a least favorite map in Rejuvenation. When Teila Resort was Teila Town, I thought it was a boring place, but as of V9 I feel like mapping is one of Rejuvenation's strongest points. I can't think of a single one I don't like. 

 

Characters

Favorite is Tesla. She's the kindest character in the game, and I like the mother-child relationship being built up with the player.

 

This is probably cheating since they were meant to be disliked, but my least favorites are Texen and Thomas Blakeory.

 

Sidequests

Favorites are Hidden Library 3 and both of GDC's help requests. Least favorite is the one where you can steal the honey, which is why I don't do it. 

 

@VitaniDaReal Rejuvenation has 18 gyms, so we have 7 gyms left.

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Story

Best: 

Kugearen arc - time travel is dope! + I'm really curious about the origins of Madame X and the dark Gardevoir

Blacksteeple arc - intense and adds to plot

 

Worst: 

The whole Amber/Venam drama as mentioned by @Chase

 

Maps

Best: 

Route 1, Route 2, Route 9, and Terajuma Island/Jungle are incredibly pretty/beautiful

 

Worst: 

(Aesthetically) - Angie's gym is a mess/cluttered. Ice maps are usually beautiful in Pokemon (Reborn, Desolation, Sun/Moon, HeartGold/SoulSilver) but this one is kinda bleh

(Logistically) - both versions of Crawli's gyms (Pre-V9 especially)

 

Characters

Best: 

Tesla - see what @Ice Cream Sand Witch already said

Zetta - I truly feel bad for the dude and hope things get better one day

 

Worst: 

Ren - biggest snake since Kevin Durant

Amber - extremely immature and not in the fun way like Venam

Edited by GreenDecidueyeArrow

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I guess I'll just do it from what I've played which is kind of mixed up between 3 different versions so I'm going to go based on everything I've played currently cause there were a lot of changes since the version I played. But this is up to Narcissa in Version 9 and the rest is kind of based on Version 6 up until Angie.

 

Overall:

 

The Good:

-Great visuals and enjoyable mapping (minus a few janky tiles which are very easy to miss)

-A very unique and entertaining side quest systems

-Some pretty cool and fun unique moves both for opponents and even for the player

-Pretty solid early game Pokemon availability

-Some very enjoyable humor (even if certain parts aren't to my taste)

 

The Bad:

-Characters are overall weak and lack depth

-Plot is very predictable at times

-Levels randomly spike

-Certain leaders and certain bosses are unbalanced making lop-sided difficulty where some fights are absolutely brutal

-Player often feels like they are pulled along to move the game forward

 

Story:

 

Best:

Narcissa's Play - This was newly added since I originally played which helps make a really bad arc better. I really liked everything about this section and the scenes were a bit interesting over the old "Y'all need to stop" meeting.

 

Worst:

This is really hard to point out as there are many bad points in the game but many of them have other factors so trying to pick out the overall one is gonna take me a minute....

 

Shadow Mewtwo - When dissecting this section, you slowly realize that this section has a lot of bad things about it. Madelis gives a very long explanation that is completely irrelevant soon after. Mewtwo is kind of an overused Pokemon. Aelita fails to do anything with the icing on the cake being Crescent showing up just to solve all the problems again. Keta's death is also very, very anti-climatic. This also brings the huge loss of the snag machine inconvenience to the point it no longer really is even useful.

 

Oh don't get me wrong in that being the worst of the worse, but having to do a bloody part on that section was more brutal than fighting a bewear in a steel mono.

 

Characters:

 

Best:

Ren - The rewrites did a lot for him in the early sections as he's not so much being written as a character you absolutely despise and actually is a bit more reasonable. If he was actually traveling with the player, I think people would really grow more fond of him rather then the whole having him travel down a road similar to Fern.

 

Sharon - She's part of the comic duo but honestly, I have to put her up here as she's one of the few characters who actually feel a bit more lively. She actually has a personality which is entertaining and she's not a typical grunt type. She's also an adorable ginger therefore she must be here.

 

Mosley - The rewrites actually really benefited her a lot. She's a bit more involved in the Goldenwood areas and her dialect adds a bit to her charm. She's a little girl with a Pangoro that chucks people. What's not to love?

 

Worst:

 

Melia - The issue with Melia is that she is a Mary Sue, but maybe she'll have a desconstruction of a Mary Sue in the later parts of the game. She's just way too perfect and way too smart with powers that go beyond being a special snowflake. Hell, she has the power to do anything with that Togepi. I also know she has magical powers as well after being in Blacksteeple (pretty sure that's what it was but oh well memory). The plot is also heavily centralized around her. I'm not against Dual-tagonists but I prefer to play as both rather than just watch one hog the spot light.

 

Aelita - Aelita is basically Victoria if Victoria was an air-head. Her character is way too focused on charging ahead without thinking and making judgements without even listening to what someone else says. I understand naive characters, but she's a bit too extreme to the point I don't really care for her.

 

Venam - At base, I'm fine with Venam as a character, but bloody hell is there a lot of issues I have with her. Her character contradicts herself many times from being a carefree rebel to acting like a sage to being reasonable in a scene where rashness suited her. None of this is ever explained. It gets worse when after all these consequences she's faced had 0 impact on her. Yes, there's a lot to her character but it's just poorly written that it just off-puts me.

 

Madelis - Madelis is basically a cliche first big bad villain. You know that guy who wrecks the village in every RPG but actually works for a bigger big bad, that's who Madelis is. Very little personality when introduced other than her being somewhat cruel. It's sad because she's probably the Xen admin who had the most potential of being a fantastic and interesting character.

 

The Goldenwood villagers - I'm sorry but I have to label them collectively because they are terrorists or at least way too extreme. I get the villagers hate outsiders trope, but this is just way too far especially with the whole murdering a little girl scene. They beat people up, murder, and destroy buildings simply because one woman burned a landmark down killing 5 or so people a long time ago.

 

Maps:

 

Best:

 

Route 1 or which route is before Amethyst Cave - This route is fairly simple but Nim is the reason it is a lot of fun as it turns a straight line path into a chaotic chase for your money. Probably one of my favorites that never gets old.

 

Worst:

 

I can't think of any in particular. I know people praise the mapping of Rejuv and while I think it does a lot of cool things, there's just nothing that sticks out in my head. This has to do with the disconnection that most people who play this mostly stick with Pokemon, while Pokemon is something I really don't play all that often (Rejuv is the only other fan-game I've played recently outside of Reborn). It's done well for what it is, but nothing wowing. There's also gripes I have like the encounter rate in Amethyst Cave (which you feel when backtracking), the elevators of Gearen, Sheridan's layout in general (pretty but a pain to traverse), but nothing I'd really put down as a worst. Does the outside of the HC count because that is ugly?

 

Side-quests:

 

Best:

 

Taking back a school from terrorists...wait wrong game. I'm gonna say the original battle me trainer in Gearen since that one really felt like a climax boss for finishing up the quests. Sure it is just a battle, but that battle was really hard if you tried it ASAP and her team was really good with a Hawlucha, Eevee, Vivillion, etc.

 

As for the current selection, I'm going to say the hidden library sidequest since I don't know about the Terajuma revamp stuff. The Hidden Library gave you a kind of nice item that let you read the fancy language statues which was a neat reward.

 

Worst:

 

The Love Letter - Yeah, yeah it's a super easy quest but it's such a letdown when compared to all the other ones. The big surprise is that he's gay and you don't really even get a memorable reward or story out of it (you don't even see the two date iirc) so it's just so forgettable. Just a run around the town which you need to do to even get Litleo.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Commander said:

Aelita - Aelita is basically Victoria if Victoria was an air-head. Her character is way too focused on charging ahead without thinking and making judgements without even listening to what someone else says. I understand naive characters, but she's a bit too extreme to the point I don't really care for her.

I find myself agreeing with you about the worst characters @Commander. With the addition of Ren. He just turns evil because he couldn't change the minds/mentality/attitude of his Town himself. He also demanded that MC stops advancing till he becomes good enough to do it himself. It's a very forced way the game chooses to use the cliche of good-turned-evil rival.

 

Also, about Aelita. She is in my eyes the opposite of Victoria. Charges ahead without thinking too much. Has also high morals and I see the similarities, but Aelita is a positive life-force that revitalizes you, while Victoria is always on the pessimistic side that tries to avoid problems instead of facing them.

Personally, I'd pick Aelita over Victoria any day.

 

PS: The Devon Corp. Victoria is amazing, let's keep her this way please Ame.

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Man was the love letter quest a letdown.

 

Even if Rejuvenation was going to be inspired by Reborn- having a progressive relationship be the "surprise" feels so ham-fisted. The "secret-admiree" even makes an aggressive "so what if I'm a guy?" response if you talk to him again.

 

This doesn't get people to be more accepting of same-sex relationships - and further alienates people who are trying to accommodate them within their worldview peacefully. It comes off as picking a fight - when it was my understanding those in the LGBTQ community just want to live their lives and have people let them.

 

Unfornately - it's not just fan games that trip over the borderline political statement tripwire. Triple-A titles are just as prone to aggressively push ideas and doctrines around. With main characters it oversells them, and with characters like Mr. Love Letter Recipient it's liable to be pointless anyway.

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14 hours ago, Chase said:

Man was the love letter quest a letdown.

 

Even if Rejuvenation was going to be inspired by Reborn- having a progressive relationship be the "surprise" feels so ham-fisted. The "secret-admiree" even makes an aggressive "so what if I'm a guy?" response if you talk to him again.

 

This doesn't get people to be more accepting of same-sex relationships - and further alienates people who are trying to accommodate them within their worldview peacefully. It comes off as picking a fight - when it was my understanding those in the LGBTQ community just want to live their lives and have people let them.

 

Unfornately - it's not just fan games that trip over the borderline political statement tripwire. Triple-A titles are just as prone to aggressively push ideas and doctrines around. With main characters it oversells them, and with characters like Mr. Love Letter Recipient it's liable to be pointless anyway.

Okay but here's the thing

 

Having something progressive in the game does not mean it's directly inspired by Reborn for that reason. Games can be progressive without it directly being inspired by another game for that reason y'know :V

Besides, as someone who's actually LGBTQ+ I don't feel like the character's statement is attacking at all. Not to mention that when I first played the sidequest myself, I was like "oh hey, cool that's a gay couple that's kinda cute"

 

Also, why make such a big deal out of a minor gay background couple? It's completely harmless to my knowledge and I don't think it had any real big political ideas behind it. The fact that it's picked up as "uncommon" and "not normal" is entirely on the person though, so perhaps that's why you feel alienated by it? (No offense intended of course)

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The main reason -I- was disappointed by the quest was because it had so much potential as a back and forth "messenger" quest that could feature some hilarious dialogue and maybe even more "important" facets such as NPCs in the story (kinda like Karen in the Starly quest.)

 

The length matters because it's breifness only features the surprise that the character you were supposed to look for is also a male sprite. Bam! Here's a homosexual relationship! Yes. That's actually the point! ....and the only "gameplay" reasoning this provides is that some players may actually be looking for a clearly female sprite and walk right past the guy multiple times.

 

I mentioned Reborn because it's a game that is much more flagrant in displaying progressive ideas and (for any reason) -is- listed as an inspiration for Rejuvenation. Not only is the player able to be non binary, there is at least one major NPC as well - which makes genderfluidity less of a subtle concept and more of a highlight of the game. Amaria and Titania's relationship is a major story point, and the only hetero relationship that comes close is the "potential" pairing of Hardy and Aya. Most major characters are women and most "allies" by FAR are women. Reborn would sell VERY well with people that champion those things or identify with them - but it may be too "ham-fisted" and direct to others. 

 

---

 

It may be that I just don't identify with the pair in the quest - but I would rather the point of a quest NOT be a simple "hey gay people need wingmen too" reminder. It would have been fun to have the recipient and the author of the letter communicate through you and the lady that represents the author. The quests lack of length causes the fact that the recipient is a guy to stand out. If it's NOT meant to be a political statement - it would be very helpful to involve a more natural "conversation" (or in this case a runaround between two parties) that any couple would have. As of right now it is 1. Start Quest. 2. Oh, he's gay, that's cool. 3. That's it? 

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First off, when replying, if you are going to say something about end-game content (especially if certain characters are killed off), please use the 'spoiler' feature. Not everyone is finished with the current episode.

Other than that, these are really useful and insightful replies. I largely agree with what is stated here, except I love Melia's character. Maybe that's only because she kind of reminds me of Melia from Xenoblade Chronicles.... hm.

 

Anyways, like most agree, the mapping in Rejuv is top tier and probably the game's best feature. Areas are open, diverse, explorable, and connected in intuitive ways. I personally love Valor Mountain because of how inventive and interesting it is (as far as mountain areas go). A few characters are actually interesting. Crawli has certain traits that make me not hate him. Narcissa is an excellent leader, probably the best-developed in the game. And my personal favorite, dropping a goon like Texen into the middle of Sheridan was wonderfully entertaining. It finally makes that place feel like it isn't just an Apophyll Beach ripoff. But there are too many characters that are more annoying than they're worth. Discount Tera from Reborn Saki is the worst offender, but I honestly wouldn't mind letting Xen just drop Nim into a swimming pool of lava while I resumed my quest for badges. And Keta feels like the disappointing love-child of Corey and Kiki from Reborn.

 

And while I like the Goldenleaf Town arc, I guess it is pretty edgy to have the townsfolk literally lynching someone when you first walk in. I think the rest of the townsfolk need to demonstrate more directly violent actions toward outsiders, otherwise that part is a bit over the top. Good for shock value, though. So I would keep it in the game. But the whole deathwing invasion in Akuwa Town was absolutely bizarre. How is the disappearance of an entire town's population not being investigated right now??? You have terrorists in Goldenleaf Town, terrorists kidnapping the entirety of Akuwa Town, and terrorists in the town Angie was in. That's an awful lot of terrorists and somehow no one is stopping them or even really investigating them. At all. Lol.

 

Lastly, did anyone else get completely murdered at least 20 times in a row by the 'steal from the Kecleon' side quest? That dungeon escape 'mini-game', if you can call it that, was nothing but a soft-reset palooza for me. I had a better chance of beating the lvl 100 Kecleons than I did escaping from them.

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1 hour ago, Chase said:

The main reason -I- was disappointed by the quest was because it had so much potential as a back and forth "messenger" quest that could feature some hilarious dialogue and maybe even more "important" facets such as NPCs in the story (kinda like Karen in the Starly quest.)

 

The length matters because it's breifness only features the surprise that the character you were supposed to look for is also a male sprite. Bam! Here's a homosexual relationship! Yes. That's actually the point! ....and the only "gameplay" reasoning this provides is that some players may actually be looking for a clearly female sprite and walk right past the guy multiple times.

 

I mentioned Reborn because it's a game that is much more flagrant in displaying progressive ideas and (for any reason) -is- listed as an inspiration for Rejuvenation. Not only is the player able to be non binary, there is at least one major NPC as well - which makes genderfluidity less of a subtle concept and more of a highlight of the game. Amaria and Titania's relationship is a major story point, and the only hetero relationship that comes close is the "potential" pairing of Hardy and Aya. Most major characters are women and most "allies" by FAR are women. Reborn would sell VERY well with people that champion those things or identify with them - but it may be too "ham-fisted" and direct to others. 

 

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It may be that I just don't identify with the pair in the quest - but I would rather the point of a quest NOT be a simple "hey gay people need wingmen too" reminder. It would have been fun to have the recipient and the author of the letter communicate through you and the lady that represents the author. The quests lack of length causes the fact that the recipient is a guy to stand out. If it's NOT meant to be a political statement - it would be very helpful to involve a more natural "conversation" (or in this case a runaround between two parties) that any couple would have. As of right now it is 1. Start Quest. 2. Oh, he's gay, that's cool. 3. That's it? 

Just because both Reborn and Rejuvenation have LGBTQ+ characters doesn't mean this mean this quest is inspired by Reborn. Reborn is hardly the first video game to have LGBTQ+ characters in it, and while Rejuvenation definitely does take notes from Reborn, it's not directly copying it by having gay people in a small sidequest, it just has gay people in a small sidequest.

 

And here's the thing: The love letter guy's target of affection being a man isn't even meant to be a twist, it's just a thing that is. The quest never says or even implies that the one you're looking for is a woman, and there's no reason why someone would be surprised that they are a man. Because to most well-adjusted people, same-sex relationships are normal to the point of being practically mundane. Most people who did that quest didn't as much as bat an eye at it, the only reaction you would get from most people would be a fairly dull: "Oh, so he's gay."

The entire joke of the quest is that the guy who wrote the letter is embarrassed to admit his crush is male, when no one really cares. Sure, it's a very simple quest, and I agree that it'd be nice if it was more fleshed out, but in the end that's all there is to it.

 

It's not trying to make a statement by having a man crushing on a man, that's just a thing that happens. If one of the two were a woman, the quest wouldn't change much really (Other than the admirer probably being more open about the gender of their crush.) and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have as much to complain about if that was the case.

 

You seem to be under the impression that Jan was trying to make a statement by including this quest, or having two men just for the sake of for the sake of having a gay couple, but I can assure you that's not the case. Several members of the dev team (Myself included) are are LGBTQ+, and this is a fairly LGBTQ+ friendly website. No one is making a political statement or pushing an agenda by acknowledging that gay people exist.

 

In your previous post, you said: "when it was my understanding those in the LGBTQ community just want to live their lives and have people let them."

Yes, and we'd also like to be able to be included as something as simple as a sidequest in a Pokémon fangame without someone making a long rant about it.

 

I might be misinterpreting what you are saying, and if I am I am truly sorry, but as an Agender person, I have had to deal with people with this attitude both online and off; but it really seems to me like you view LGBTQ+ being treated the same as cisgendered hetero people as some sort of political statement. But being treated with basic human decency isn't a right we should have to earn. Let me repeat that: It's not our responsibility to make sure other people view us with the same respect as everyone else.
Granted, today most people view LGBTQ+ people as something normal and mundane, and I am grateful for that. There is still a lot of suffering and abuse happening to LGBTQ+ people around the world, but things are improving. However, even still there are "allies" who feel the need to judge every little thing we do. Speaking from my own experience, there are things that are incredibly mundane for your average person, that I have gotten heavily judged for. People feel the need to comment on my name, my appearance, little things that don't even concern them.

Even (And especially) people who are supposedly "allies". You remind me a lot of those kinds of people, and you might think I am being rude here (And again, it's possible I'm entirely misinterpreting what you're saying), but I have gotten very tired of people who view supporting LGBTQ+ people as an "accessory" that they can just take off if it becomes too inconvenient.

 

And back to Reborn; it's true that Reborn has a fairly diverse cast of characters, several of whom are LGBTQ+. But again, no one is making a political statement by including non-binary player character and same-sex relationships. That's just a thing that is in the game. There's no ulterior motive behind having diverse characters, the characters just happens to be diverse because guess what? Not everyone is straight in real life.

It's not a "highlight" of the game, and it's definitely not "ham-fisted", as it's not even trying to push any sort of political message. There just happens to be LGBTQ+ characters in the game living their lives. And that's the point I'm trying to make here; you view including LGBTQ+ as making some sort of political message, but it's not. And it's not "ham-fisted" to simply include these characters in a work, and if you (hypothetical you) view LGBTQ+ characters just existing as a turn-off, then I'm very to say this but: You are the problem.

 

This got longer than I expected, but I hope I got my point across.

 

Thank you and have a good day!

/Sincerely, Winter

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Do mind my terseness here - writing on my phone away from a keyboard. Thought your post warranted a response, Winter!

 

1. Nowhere in either of my posts was I trying to say LGBTQ individuals are not welcome to be in games. That is an epidemic that is much worse than the situation this quest causes in the entire video game industry. This includes unsexed characters that are present. The goal should be normalcy and not shock value. My argument is that the quest has no other value other than pointing out the male is crushing on another male. There's no fleshed out reasoning (like the letter writer being embarrassed on multiple fronts) to provide a story behind the quest. And THAT makes its presentation undermine the effect and appear heavy handed to the straight, cis individual more than any intent Jan may or may not have had.

 

2. I am not asserting Ame or Jan made any political statement through their respective games. I -am- pointing out that Ame's work takes the risk of interpretation (probably in memory of the people that inspire her work) flagrantly and that Rejuvenation is inspired by Reborn in general - not because it projects a specific political message. It's all in interpretation - two people don't see the same thing. That's something that's very important to recognize so we don't talk past each other!

 

3. Reborn - as a result of it being written out of the memory of others and not out of malice - ignores equivalence. It's been viewed by countless others as mildly progressive in some shape or form because there's not nearly as much representation of Men or Heterosexual relations or the like in the story. Ame has no need to change her narrative here! It's just the risk of interpretation that her work runs.

 

4. As of right now - Jan's game isn't rife with progressive imagery, so there's risk for the quest in question to stick out in a world that is not Reborn's - which does a better job of portraying the "normalcy" of LGBTQ presence by making said presence large. Without depth, the love letter quest only has a summery of "secret admirer LIKES a guy - and may be embarrassed about it?" Would have been nice to have the player character (even if it doesn't reflect the view of the player) meet the guy multiple times in a run around quest and assure them that loving a guy is okay rather than having this feeling the quest was half baked.

 

5. The only issue with the quest is it's length. That is what makes everything else suspect when it shouldn't be. This is not really arguable because I am one example of a person that felt like it was supposed to be a shock value quest.

 

6. If you are a human, you should be treated like one. Unfortunately - not everyone agrees on one list of human rights. That's an issue we as a species have to iron out. Together.

 

7. My assertion that it's ham-fisted is not merely within the gay couple being there. It's the lack of supporting context. When the only thing that is to be interpreted is "oh. He's gay." and there isn't much of an explanation or follow through to adaquatly close the quest - then the player is left to wonder why Jan wrote the quest in that manner. If it is an implied "Gay people are normal" meaning why is the letter writer gone and replaced by a lady representing him? Why does the recipient question the player's outlook on the couple? Is it normal or should the attention be brought to the instance by these characters? Again. The quest fails to answer the question. FWIW, I can buy Jan playing the implied card. I just think it's a bad presentation if that's the case.

 

8. I'm fine with LGBTQ characters in video games. Vivian from Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door is in my top 10 characters in games. And he is done some huge injustice in the English version of the game. Needless to say - such characters don't ruin a game to me.

 

 

 

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So as great as this political/lgbt/whatever discussion is, I'd like to have this thread go back on topic, and about the what people think are the good/bad parts of Rejuv.

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If I'm not mistaken... the conversation (as far as I am concerned) was about the potential shortcomings of the Help Center Quest involving the Love Letter. I couldn't HOPE - nor would I bother - trying to convince people on the bigger issue of how people are treated in the LGBTQ community at large.

 

I will apologize for breaking format - but in the event Jan takes criticism from the forum into consideration, my criticism (as well as the criticism in the worst categories of the rest of us!) is intended to help Jan make his game as awesome as his ideas for the game are. That's the interest I have pursued in this discourse.

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