Pokemon Rejuvenation "Hardcore" [Interest Check]

[Commander]

So I'm not sure how many of you over like the past year have heard me say a multiple times that I'm not doing a Hardcore version of Rejuvenation. While I haven't finished playing through the game yet (or even close) I do have a good feeling for Rejuv now compared to before and I feel like I can do stuff to mod it since it has enough progress to really warrant this kind of thing. For those who don't know, the term Hardcore comes from a mod called Pokemon Hardcore which I believe is the first for Reborn, however, the initial project was not started by me. I however did more or less make everything you see in the current release of the mod as I rebuilt it from the ground up twice with its features. The reason I didn't want to do a Hardcore mod of Rejuv was due to the whole intense mode being the harder version of Rejuv (Reborn has no such version and Hardcore helped calm the ongoing storm of nerf rants which was its intended purpose to please vets). I still don't believe Rejuv really needs a hardcore version, however, maybe I'm wrong and a lot of fans really would like me to bring some of my Reborn work into the world of Rejuv. That's why this thread was created to gauge the interests. Now I want to lay a few things down before hand:

 

1. I do not have the PBS files nor have I asked Jan's permission to make such mod. When or if it is official, I will ask him then as I'll have both a clearer idea what the mod will be and

2. I have not finished Rejuv yet so I would ask you keep fights and spoiler stuff to a minimum. You guys do want me to read your comments, right?

3. XXX amount of people posting does not equal me making this mod. I'm looking for insightful comments initially. If I feel I have enough feedback, I'll put a poll up to gauge how many people are interested. Saying yes to the poll is more or less saying "I'm interested."

4. I still have a lot of work to do for both school and Reborn Hardcore so it will at least be two months before I even start on this massive project. More likely 3-4 months then it will take a few months to get this all done.

5. I'm not going to develop this as much as I would Reborn Hardcore so while I may add stuff, it won't be on that level of work. I'm not against investing in new additions, but two mods suck up a lot of time so chances are it's very likely if these stay more or less solo projects.

 

And with that out of the way I can go into the stuff you should talk about if you are interested:

 

1. Basic Feature of Hardcore (ie Level Limiter, TM Breeding, ect): When I see people talk about this idea, most of the time it is for all the feature I added to make Hardcore flow a bit more smoothly. If you guys really only just want those, I could add most of the simple ones within one to two weeks. Heck, the level limiter is a straight copy and paste over and I'd be done in 10 minutes (more like an hour with testing). I could do this for an initial release as well to work with Rejuv if you guys really want it. If I do Rejuv "Hardcore" Level Limiter is coming though. That's just how I roll.

 

2. Commander's style of Battle Design: If you guys want me to do my own take on all of Rejuv's gym leaders making a harder version of the reborn style mode, I can do that. Rejuv's leaders have a bit more leeway as they aren't real people with real strategies, unlike Reborn, but I do tend to like designing fighting styles to match their personalities. My battle style also is for early fights that only the ace Pokemon can go over the cap which in Rejuv Intense I believe Jan does have a good chunk of Pokemon over the cap from what I remember. I'd also swap some Pokemon on the teams to make them different from the reg mode as well because...you can only do so much with just 6 mons.

 

3a. Alternate/Pre-Nerf Battles: So something that Hardcore that became very, very popular were the alternate battles which leaders used a different set of Pokemon usually only keep their ace and secondary Ace (aka they have 10 Pokemon in total), but often switched from doubles to singles and vice-versa. This concept seemed to be really enjoyed, even if it was not used as intended. Generally these fights were much more difficult as I changed up the strategies leaders used and didn't have to hold back as much due to the other fight being easier or more balanced. This also allows me to bring back old broken things such as the original Narcissa fight if people so wish it. I'm willing to do both #2 and this one or I can just do these for the fights I add.

 

3b. Intense 2.0: With Hardcore, grinding is much, much easier and trainers net you a lot more experience. That was something I felt Rejuv always really lacked even in Version 6 as I often lagged behind in levels. With an improved and faster paced leveling system, players are going to be much stronger. What intense 2.0 would be intended for is to push players to their limit in strategy as this would have fights that are much more difficult than the original intense mode. If I go this route, I probably won't be able to do #2 or 3a as these fights would be very, very demanding and require a lot of testing.

 

4. The Project Name: If you've known me for a while, you'll know I hate that the mods name is Hardcore. I always wanted to call it Veteran's Mode since it was designed for them, but probably for the best I kept the name out of novelty of the original creator. Part of me wants to call this Rejuv DX (it means deluxe and someone in pain at the same time), but you can humor me on what the project should be called if I do develop or begin developing it.

 

5. The CoM: CoM stands for the Chamber of Memories which is a gauntlet where you fight every gym leader in a row with a single team, no items, and set mode. This mode is brutal and was the ultimate test for trainers to see how good they really are. This also would be a long development project, but I'm willing to do one with Rejuv if people are really interested.

 

One thing I won't do is the party system for Rejuv. In theory it would be cool to run around as Venam play as other characters it's a lot of work and not worth the payout. However, I'm willing to do fights where you switch to another character like I did for the Maison fight if you guys really want to see something like that. It won't be at the maison levels as that was eventing hell (literally 8 hours of work on that event).

 

So yeah, that's quite a bit of things I can do. The thing is that if certain things people don't really care for or are neutral for means I can cut them out or cut back and make time for other things as well as less dev time to make the mod. Comments are really, really appreciated here as I'm still on the fence about this, however, I'm considering it and this will help me make the decision.

 

Even though I said p.ost count doesn't matter, if this somehow reaches 100 posts before the end of the month, I will make a mod of this no matter what. One person spamming a lot of posts doesn't count though. I'm watching you O_O

 

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ATTENTION: This is information regarding the poll as you'll see above:

 

 

Hardcore Styled: Fights will be designed with the same layout idea of the Hardcore mod where leaders will keep their battle style (ie singles or doubles) from the original fight, but leaders/bosses will be beefed up and receive different Pokemon in order to make them more difficult. While it is more difficult than Reborn styled, this fights are considered easier than Intense Mode.

 

Alternate Battles: These fights have a similar restriction to Hardcore Style except I change the battle tactics of the leaders. Many times this changes their battle style, however it is not a requirement. In hardcore many of these fights were considered harder than the regular fights and often are the preferred battles for glory. They are likely still easier than Intense mode, but that cannot be determined at this time.

 

Intense 2.0: My one rule is that I will not go higher levels than Jan already has since level advantage is very, very unfair for the early game. However, leaders are not restricted to stat inflation to their mons. Stat inflation is where I program leader mons to have higher stats than the regular mon. Many times, this is so that the mon performs at the expected level when they normally underperform. I do put some restrictions such as a mon cannot exceed 600 BST (ie Mega and Legends) and are tested very carefully to make sure they are not too powerful. It sounds like a bigger deal than it already is as I've done quite a few Pokemon (Shelly's Volbeat, Luna's Umbreon, Adrienn's entire team) in which you can experience what these changes do. Other additions may include forced Set mode and a limit on the number of items you can use in battle. The purpose of this mod is to test the player's abilities which often cannot been done to the fullest without breaking some rules. If you are against these ideas, the upper two do not do this unless under extreme conditions.

[Smooge]

Not gonna lie, I really hoped that one day you would do this. I loved reborn hardcore, played it a few times and it was actually really challenging and fun. Its actually what got me into RPGMaker and scripting because i wanted to add some other mods in but could never figure out how until i learned how to edit scripts.
Rejuvenation Intense mode is pretty hard but i think it can definitely get a lot harder once you put your hands on it lol, I've always wanted more of a challenge in this game.
I really hope Jan gives you the go ahead on this because I think a ton of people would love this.

[Zarc]

Well : interested. I loved hardcore and i think it would be a good idea to do the same on reju 

[Hect]

Eh, sure, I'm a masochist. Might as well say that I'm interested in it.

[Ronan Erudon]

I can feel the pain already.

[Anime]

Well Reborn hardcore is quite fun so yeah rej hardcore would be nice

[Glynda]

I'm interested alright, mostly because Level Limiter and other features that could honestly make playing through the harder difficulties much smoother. 

[Chinchou]

I'm super interested!! I loved Reborn hardcore! 

[Shithappens]

Intense 2.0 and all the gyms as singles please because doubles allow too much cheese!

[seki108]

I'm not sure if I would be more interested in some combo of #2 and #3  or the  2.0 option.  Either way, I would be interested in this sometime after I eventually beat Rejuv for the first time.

 

With what I've played of Rejuv and of Hardcore, some combination of systems might work well to increase the difficulty.  I'm just typing basic thoughts and a basic approval of this idea for now. Maybe I can actually contribute to the conversation more later.

[Paul25]

Rejuvenation hardcore sounds good!  

It would be nice like reborn  

[Commander]

Geeze you people go fast. 10 posts and it hasn't even been a day. Well let's see what I can say.

 

21 hours ago, whomst'd've'n't said:

Not gonna lie, I really hoped that one day you would do this. I loved reborn hardcore, played it a few times and it was actually really challenging and fun. Its actually what got me into RPGMaker and scripting because i wanted to add some other mods in but could never figure out how until i learned how to edit scripts.
Rejuvenation Intense mode is pretty hard but i think it can definitely get a lot harder once you put your hands on it lol, I've always wanted more of a challenge in this game.
I really hope Jan gives you the go ahead on this because I think a ton of people would love this.

 

I'm actually surprised I was someone's inspiration. I know a lot of people like Hardcore, but I feel like it's Reborn what really inspires people to do stuff. Only tips I can give you is to accept not everything is going to work or work like you want it and just keep pushing through. I started out and for a very long time only had 4-10 players and people supporting the mod. Less people than even this topic. Just picture that for a minute. It's rough, but if you keep working you'll get results. Extreme Mode could even surpass hardcore with enough effort.

 

2 hours ago, Shithappens said:

Intense 2.0 and all the gyms as singles please because doubles allow too much cheese!

 

I haven't gotten far enough in Rejuv, but in Hardcore, there are certain fights were people choose to fight a leader in singles over doubles due to the sheer difficulty of said leaders like Radomus. In fact, I think ranking wise at least half of the top 10 most difficult fights would be doubles with 2 being in the top two. I have so much evidence, let alone I prefer doubles, backing up the double battles are more difficult that it's kind of hard to understand your logic there. But in truth, fights are based around the leader and not what I feel like so not every fight will be singles. Not every fight will be doubles. There are also some things no matter what that cannot be countered. Not because it is impossible, but it would lead to unfair fights to the point of not being fun for most people.

 

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Okay that's at least enough for me to put a poll up. I'm going to put a poll up to kind of help determine what kind of mod this should be since there are some obvious things, but it seems like the whole Intense 2.0, Hardcore Styled, and Alternate Battles are kind of mixed. I'll give a brief of them here and in the OP what each means:

 

Hardcore Styled: Fights will be designed with the same layout idea of the Hardcore mod where leaders will keep their battle style (ie singles or doubles) from the original fight, but leaders/bosses will be beefed up and receive different Pokemon in order to make them more difficult. While it is more difficult than Reborn styled, this fights are considered easier than Intense Mode.

 

Alternate Battles: These fights have a similar restriction to Hardcore Style except I change the battle tactics of the leaders. Many times this changes their battle style, however it is not a requirement. In hardcore many of these fights were considered harder than the regular fights and often are the preferred battles for glory. They are likely still easier than Intense mode, but that cannot be determined at this time.

 

Intense 2.0: My one rule is that I will not go higher levels than Jan already has since level advantage is very, very unfair for the early game. However, leaders are not restricted to stat inflation to their mons. Stat inflation is where I program leader mons to have higher stats than the regular mon. Many times, this is so that the mon performs at the expected level when they normally underperform. I do put some restrictions such as a mon cannot exceed 600 BST (ie Mega and Legends) and are tested very carefully to make sure they are not too powerful. It sounds like a bigger deal than it already is as I've done quite a few Pokemon (Shelly's Volbeat, Luna's Umbreon, Adrienn's entire team) in which you can experience what these changes do. Other additions may include forced Set mode and a limit on the number of items you can use in battle. The purpose of this mod is to test the player's abilities which often cannot been done to the fullest without breaking some rules. If you are against these ideas, the upper two do not do this unless under extreme conditions.

[Smooge]

18 minutes ago, Commander said:

I'm actually surprised I was someone's inspiration. I know a lot of people like Hardcore, but I feel like it's Reborn what really inspires people to do stuff. Only tips I can give you is to accept not everything is going to work or work like you want it and just keep pushing through. I started out and for a very long time only had 4-10 players and people supporting the mod. Less people than even this topic. Just picture that for a minute. It's rough, but if you keep working you'll get results. Extreme Mode could even surpass hardcore with enough effort.

Yeah I've been trying to make sure not to half-ass anything, I want it to be as good as I can possibly make it because I didn't expect so much support on it... But I'm really happy that it got any support at all lol. Balancing is definitely going to be the hardest part though, pretty much every Pokemon has the potential to break the game lmao, I've went through the list about 20 times making tweaks each time to make sure nothing just beats the game on its own.

Edited June 9, 2017 by whomst'd've'n't

[Shithappens]

For example the electric gym can be cheesed with a lightning rod seaking who soaks your other pokemon. In singles this would not be possible. Also you can use toxic and memento on multiple gym openers which allows you to setup pretty much whatever to sweep the gym. The opener pokemon need to be much harder hitting and faster to actually make you unable to use for example pyukumuku for easy setups. Gym pokemon could also have perfect IVs and helpful nature/EV spread (not sure if this is the case already).

[DemICE]

As someone who has gone through intense version 2 times,  and one of those times with pokemon of 480 BST and below, i can definitely get the feel that there is a lot of space for improvement,  and if anyone can do it, its you. 
My inner masochistic gamer just wasn't satisfied enough by rejuv intense's difficulty. Some leaders were even nerfed sheesh.  I can understand nerfing the regular mode but intense should be left intact if not made harder.

 

 

TL;DR > Go for it with my blessings!

 

 

The fact that you are asking us to actually choose between those is a hard gamgle you damn gambler.

I can live without level limiter and breedable TMs since reverse candies are dirt cheap.

Thing is,  2 and 3  are both very awesome ideas.  I would like some alternate battles, but i would also like the trainers to be harder too.

What will ultimately make me choose is if,  in what you have in mind as Intense v2.0  the leaders fights are redesigned to be harder, just with no alternative fights.  I would be content with that because i dearly feel that some leaders did not even come close to 80% of their field's and team strategy's (if they even had one) capabilities in current intense mode.  So yeah before moving to alternate fights, it would be nice to see the current fights, in their maximum hardcoreness!

Edited June 14, 2017 by DemICE

[Sceptilespy]

I'd LOVE this. As I love the challenge. Although recently on intense, [insert really hard gym leader that I should've left out earlier, and idk how to delete comments so I'm doing this. sorry] completely stomped me and I haven't moved since.

So hardcore would be nuts.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Sceptilespy

[enu]

Hi Commander,

 

adding Level Limiter, TM Breeding and No-Items mods would be nice - and it would improve the game quite a lot.

 

On the other hand I think it's a bit too early to make drastic changes like you do in Reborn. At this point Reju is still quite buggy compared to Reborn (no offense meant to Jan and the team, the game is great, just feels more unfinished than Reborn) plus you still have quite a lot of work to do for Reborn because of Gen 7.

 

What I'd really like to see is an option to disable the custom moves that Reju gym leaders are using. They feel very cheap - just a thing they use whenever they don't know what to do. I always feel cheated when they use these moves and for me it drastically reduces the fun I have from the battles.

 

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2 Commander's style of Battle Design would be nice. Compared to Reborn and Reborn Hardcore the opponent teams in Reju don't seem to have much personality to them (at least the part of game I played so far).

 

3a Alternate/Pre-Nerf battles seem like something that should be used in regular Intense mode?

 

3b This feels like it should be optimized for usage with No-Items + Battle Style Set. It might easily get too difficult when using these if it's optimized to the case when player uses healing items and Switch Style.

 

Personally I prefer the first (or second) variant. (Ideally both as in Reborn Hardcore.) Third sounds like it could be too demanding considering there are limited options to build the team during the game. Challenges like this should be left for the CoM in my opinion.

 

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4 Just name it whatever you want. Honestly just rename the Reborn mod too if you wish, you did far more work on it than the original author. Veteran's Mode sounds awesome.

 

5 I didn't play CoM in Reborn yet but... is there a way to battle just one particular leader of my choice without going through the gountlet? I'd often like to try some strategy against a particular gym leader but there is no way I would be able to reach them normally in the gountlet. If there is no such option, could you please, please, please add it?

 

 

[Commander]

@DemICE Interesting how you say the fights don't feel optimized. I haven't looked too far in the current version, but I've looked at Venam and yeah there's a lot that can be shifted around to make her harder, but first off...eviolite whirlpede. I knew something fishy was going on there. But yeah, likely we're going through a classic hardcore mode first.

 

@baldr While I read your whole comment, I'm just going to kind of glaze over it with a response. While I'm not a big fan of custom moves, it is part of the game and lore so axing them would cause more grief than what it's worth. However, I may remove them entirely when designing alternate mode, but that idea is on hold until I made a hardcore styled version of the game. On the other hand, I do plan on making a few modifications to the game, but I'll leave those a surprise. I'm also used to buggy with E15 so that's not a problem for me as well. And also I do have on my to consider list to limit items and set mode for Intense 2.0 if or when I design that so don't worry too much regarding that.

 

As for the whole CoM Gauntlet thing, it is on my to consider list to add the fights outside of the gauntlet, but it's on the bottom of the to do list for E17. I can't promise I'll have a working one on the initial release.

 

Also, there are a lot of reasons why Hardcore keeps the name so for better or worse that name is there to stay (but forever in my heart its called Veteran's Mode)

 

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But I suppose I should give you an update. I asked Jan to turn Melia into a Ludicolo about if he's okay with me creating Rejuvenation "Hardcore" and he gave his permission so we have all that out of the way. I probably won't get to work on this until August or September but likely September as Hardcore comes first and E17 is still a thing. But on another note, I have officially given what the mod name is going to be after thinking about it deeply. Pokemon Rejuvenation DX. When I make the official thread, the name will make a lot more sense.